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The BallinEurope All-American Euroleague team (also all-Russian, -Greek and -former Yugoslavian teams)

May 22, 2012

Sonny Weems: Lithuania's top import in 2011-12

Now here’s an argument starter for you … with much debate perpetually going on among European basketball fans vis-à-vis the influence of American and/or NBA players on the Euroleague, BiE decided to take a look back at the 2011-12 season in hopes of drawing some comparison on an individual, player-by-player level.

Below, then, runs four all-star squads based on play in this season’s edition of the big league; for convenience and competition’s (rather than geopolitics’) sake, players from Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Montenegro and FYR Macedonia will be virtually suiting up for the “former Yugoslavia” team.

Right, so who wins this tournament…?

• Team USA
Henry Domercant, Unics Kazan
Bo McCalebb, Montepaschi Siena
Sonny Weems, Žalgiris Kaunas
Mike Batiste, Panathinaikos
D’Or Fischer, Gescrap Bilbao Basket

A couple of characteristics come to mind when contemplating the above starting five. The past season seems to prove (or at least heavily imply) that though a Euroleague team may be built around an American playmaker type, the title itself will regardless probably remain unattainable without a team concept at work. Weems, Domercant and possibly McCalebb can be considered to have carried their clubs beyond expectations while steadfastly playing through opposition defenses focused single-mindedly on the star.

Note, too, that just one of this would-be starting quintet actually played in the Final Four tourney: Batiste, an EL modern-era top 10 scorer and rebounder, who’s nevertheless known mostly for his defensive prowess. While Batiste was second-best on Panathinaikos in scoring, rebounding and performance index rating, why would the Greens ever let him go? Of course, they wouldn’t.

Honorable mentions: Pete Mickael, FC Barcelona; Richard Hendrix, Maccabi Tel Aviv.

• Team ex-Yugoslavia
Nenad Krstic, CSKA Moscow
Milos Teodosic, CSKA Moscow
Marko Banic, Gescrap Bilbao Basket
Milan Macvan, Partizan Belgrade
Erazem Lorbek, FC Barcelona

Bizarre that BiE came up with at least nine viable names for this squad – with only one currently playing in European basketball capitals like Belgrade, Zagreb, Ljubljana and such. Naturally, CSKA swallowed up Serbia’s top two Euroleague players to go with half of Team Russia, a couple of Lithuanian greats and a few with NBA games on their CVs – and Red Army backers weren’t disappointed in the least throughout the season until, say, the last quarter of the EL championship game in which Teodosic uncharacteristically blew up with 0-of-4 shooting, a missed free throw that might have iced the game, three personal fouls and four turnovers.

Meanwhile, all Slovenia’s Lorbek did for FC Barcelona was post a career year of 13.0 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 15.1 PIR and a first team All-Euroleague nod. Banic was a force for Bilbao either off the bench or in the starting lineup; finally, in 10 games with Partizan, the 22-year-old Macvan scored in double figures every time and may have given attentive Cleveland Cavaliers fans some hope for the future – the sky’s the limit for this guy, it appears.

Honorable mentions: Luka Zoric, Unicaja Malaga; Vladimir Micov, Bennet Cantu; Igor Rakocevic, Montepaschi Siena; Luksa Andric, Galatasaray

• Team Russia (literally)
Andrei Kirilenko, CSKA Moscow
Alexey Shved, CSKA Moscow
Viktor Khryapa, CSKA Moscow
Andrey Vorontsevich, CSKA Moscow

You know that star-studded CSKA squad? Well, it’s a lot like Team Russia’s gonna look this summer. Except … does anyone have a fifth nomination…?

• Team Greece
Dimitris Diamantidis, CSKA Moscow
Vassilis Spanoulis, Olympiacos
Georgis Printezis, Olympiacos
Kostas Kaimakoglou, Panathinaikos
Ian Vougioukas, Panathinaikos

While the country and its national basketball scene are not exactly experiencing the best of times, Greek hoops fans can take solace in one heck of a 2011-12 thus far – and with another Panathinaikos-Olympiacos domestic championship battle set as well. (So crisis really *does* create heroes…)

First and foremost, of course, there was Spanoulis. Already entering the Greek basketball history annals by becoming the second player to win Euroleague titles with both Greece’s Greens and Reds (the first was Dimitris Papanikolaou), Spanoulis turned in a champion-leading season that surely had many EL media partners wishing they could take back those Kirilenko MVP votes after witnessing Olympiacos’ ultimate triumph in the finals.

Printezis might have made this squad based solely on his runner in the final two seconds of EL 2011-12, but his 57.8% two-point shooting beyond the regular-season round displayed growing intensity and focus as the season wore on for Olympiacos. And with last year’s MVP Dimitris Diamantidis again turning in a killer year, Greek fans can take a fair amount of pride in their guys going into 2012-13.

May 22, 2012ballineurope
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This post was published on May 22, 2012
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Comments: 106
  1. Dimitris Ritsonis
    13 years ago

    David Andersen is Australian 😉

    ReplyCancel
  2. Panos
    13 years ago

    Andersen is Aussie, with Danish roots. He isn’t American.

    ReplyCancel
  3. Greg
    13 years ago

    Spanoulis is the third player to win the title with Panathinaikos and Olympiacos.
    It is also Lazaros Papadopoulos, 2002 with Panathinaikos

    ReplyCancel
  4. Phileus
    13 years ago

    Bo McCalebb is also not American… 😉

    ReplyCancel
  5. Jack
    13 years ago

    Andreas Glyniadakis also.

    Panathinaikos 2000

    Olympiacos 2012

    ReplyCancel
  6. Galaad
    13 years ago

    Dimitris Diamantidis, CSKA Moscow ?

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  7. Mike
    13 years ago

    Lol obviously it should be Dimitris Diamantidis, Panathinaikos

    ReplyCancel
  8. Apollo
    13 years ago

    ” Spanoulis turned in a champion-leading season that surely had many EL media partners wishing they could take back those Kirilenko MVP votes after witnessing Olympiacos’ ultimate triumph in the finals. ”

    reply

    Where is Gabe? Strange how he suddenly disappears on comments like this, but trolled for WEEKS on end, when the site suggested Kirilenko was the MVP………funny, now when the site even admits that vote was a mistake, and it should have been Spanoulis, Gabe is mysteriously silent and absent………………

    ReplyCancel
    • Gabe
      13 years ago

      But it wasn’t and Kirilenko the NBA role player will forever be written in history as the 2012 Euroleague MVP and Defensive Player of the Year.

      As it should be. The Euroleague MVP is for the Euroleague regular season and the Euroleague Final Four MVP is for the Euroleague Final Four just as how the NBA MVP is for the NBA regular season and the NBA Finals MVP is for the NBA Finals. When Nowitzki won his NBA MVP and his team was upset in the first round. Does that mean that his award should have been given to Tony Parker instead? No.

      The fact is that for the regular season Kirilenko, an NBA role player, was voted the best player in Euroleague and Krstic, an NBA scrub, was voted one of the top five players in Euroleague. Yes they fell one game short of being champions but is being champions all we are going to judge teams and players by? If so then Spanoulis and Team Greece have never won gold in a global competition. So what does that say about them?

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  9. Rico
    13 years ago

    Spanoulis had a way better regular season than Kirilenko did. He was robbed of the MVP award. Kirilenko just got it as a way to promote the league.

    “Look here at this NBA player. Isn’t he great?”.

    Spanoulis was the actual MVP of the regular season.

    Global competition?

    EuroBasket is the highest competition, according to most players that have played in it, and Olympics, and World Cup.

    Actually, most players swear EuroBasket is the highest level. Greece won that twice.

    So Greece won the highest level basketball tournament in the world TWICE.

    The USA has never even played in it.

    What does that say about the USA national team then huh buddy?

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    • Gabe
      13 years ago

      You can say what ever you want. Kirilenko was voted and will forever written in history as Euroleague MVP so your opinion matters little.

      As for Eurobasket being the highest level, does that absurd statement even warrant a response? Eurobasket is a regional/zone competition. It does not have all the best teams in the world, especially the USA. How can you call a competition without the best teams in the world the highest level competition? That’s like calling the European World Cup qualification a higher level tournament than the World Cup without having Brazil although the US is a lot more dominant in basketball than Brazil is in soccer.

      The top teams from Eurobasket play in the Olympic and WC too, they just also have to compete against top teams from the rest of the world too.

      It shows how delusional some Euros are. I remember a few years back the argument was that the WC was a higher level competition than the Olympics. Now that the US won the WC with their B-team the new argument is that Eurobasket is the highest level tournament. lol Well USA will never win Eurobasket so you are safe in your delusional bubble.

      So keep believing that a regional/qualifying tournament is a higher level than then the actual tournament that those top teams from the zone tournament qualify for. I’ll just know the facts that since 1992 when NBA players were allowed to play in global competitions there have been 9 Olympics and WCs where the best teams of the world have met. The top teams from Eurobasket are 2-7 in those competitions. So yes Eurobasket is the highest level basketball because when when the top teams from Eurobasket face the other top teams in the world they are 2-7 against them. ROTFL Top tournament indeed…for being runners up!

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      • Phileus
        13 years ago

        “So Greece won the highest level basketball tournament in the world TWICE.

        The USA has never even played in it.”

        AhaHahahahahahahahahahhaa 😛 That’s a pretty funny thing to say 😛

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  10. Derek M
    13 years ago

    It’s common knowledge that the highest level FIBA tournament is the EuroBasket. This is basic basketball knowledge.

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  11. Derek M
    13 years ago

    Also, the vast majority of football (soccer) fans around the world agree that the Euro championship is a higher level tournament than the World Cup.

    I think that this Gabe gentleman has a very low general sporting knowledge.

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  12. Derek M
    13 years ago

    QUOTE = Gabe

    The top teams from Eurobasket are 2-7 in those competitions. So yes Eurobasket is the highest level basketball because when when the top teams from Eurobasket face the other top teams in the world they are 2-7 against them. ROTFL Top tournament indeed…for being runners up!

    REPLY

    The USA is 5-3 with the NBA players in “world tournaments” (5-4 if you count 1998)………….

    They had to have the refs help them win in 2000 (semifinal against Lithuania), 2008 (final against Spain), and 2010 (elimination games against Russia and Lithuania) as well, otherwise it would be 2-6 with those NBA players.

    So, without the refs bailing them out, they would be 2-6 in “global tournaments”, and even with the refs help, playing 8 against 5, only managed a 5-3 record in the “global tournaments”.

    if you actually have a point, please make it. Otherwise stop being such a wanker.

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    • Gabe
      13 years ago

      Actually it’s 6-3. USA won gold in 1992, 1994, 1996, 2000, 2008 & 2010 and lost in 2002, 2005 & 2006 (yes I don’t count 1998 because NBA players did not participate). So in reality the USA is 6-3 in global tournaments! One country winning gold in the highest global level of a sport 2/3 of the time! Is there any other global sport where one country is so dominant? Serious question? I don’t know much about other sports. I know that basketball is the second most popular global sport after soccer and no team comes close to dominating soccer the way US dominates basketball. I mean winning 2/3s of the time! Wow. USA! USA!

      And blaming the refs is the final desperate cry of losers who can’t accept how dominate the USA is in basketball. I can just as easily claim that the refs helped the USA lose the 3 tournaments they lost especially in 2004 when the refs called all those phantom fouls on Duncan in the semi-finals against Argentina. Why do you think the great and humble Duncan swore never to play in a FIBA game after that? But I’m not a loser like you guys who blame the refs when my team loses. I take it like a man (by the comments on this website it seems that real men in Europe are in short supply of)

      Any way I can’t wait until the Olympics when the USA again dominates and their record will be 7-3 in these tournaments while the “minor league” European teams will be 2-8. So you can take your Eurobasket. It’s okay to be proud of a silver medal. 🙂

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  13. Vitali
    13 years ago

    Greece won a “global tournament” of basketball in 1995. It just proves that Gabe is a liar and never has any facts right.

    BTW, Euro basketball and football championships are definitely higher level tournaments than football World Cup and basketball World Cup and Olympics.

    It’s sad that Americans are such morons when it comes to sports that they do not even know that. Just pathetic.

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    • Gabe
      13 years ago

      What global tournament was there in 1995? lol

      I think it’s more sad that Europeans are so close minded, ignorant and Eurocentric to believe the “higher level” tournaments only include Europeans teams. There is a great big world out there. Teams like USA, Argentina, and Brazil have won and sometimes dominated in basketball and football so if they are not included in a tournament it cannot be a “higher level” tournament. The best Europeans teams in the Euro championships get the privilege of competing against the top teams of the world while the top global teams will never play in Eurochampionship. In essence the European championships are just qualifiers for the global competitions.

      This isn’t the 19th Century anymore and the world does not revolve around Europe. I know lots of Europeans have inferiority complexes when it comes to the rest of the world, especially the United States but Europe is only a small part of the world. This is especially true in basketball where Europe’s 2-7 record against the rest of the world shows how pitiful they really are in basketball.

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  14. mike
    13 years ago

    Gabe, these Flat Earth Society Euro guys love Greece because of that RARE win against the US in 2006. They can’t seem to get over it and move on. When they met again in 08, it was over by halftime with Spanoulis being embarrassed by Kobe and the crew.
    It’s really amazing that there actually are people in today’s world who really believe in these delusions and Greek basketball fantasies. We can only hope that one day they will allow scientists to investigate and study their brains. LOL

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    • Gabe
      13 years ago

      What makes it even more amazing is even after that victory they couldn’t complete the deal and were destroyed by a shorthanded Spainish team in the final. They won one silver medal, no better or worse than what Italy did in 2004 or what Turkey did in 2010. Yet they think they can compare themselves to the USA which have won 6 gold medals in the 9 tournaments with NBA players.

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  15. Randy
    13 years ago

    The basketball players and football players that have played in all the tournaments almost all say that the Euro tournaments are the highest level of competition.

    I think I will trust the actual players, over a couple random morons on the internet.

    And yeah, Greece did win a “global” tournament (that sounds to ridiculous) in 1995. Which really does show that you are a big talker without having any facts to back you up.

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    • Gabe
      13 years ago

      Maybe in football you can claim the euro tournaments because they have more higher level teams but still European team only win the world cup a little more than half the time. And in basketball their record in global tournaments is 2-7. I don’t know how you can claim the euro tournament is the highest level in basketball when the best teams from those tournaments are 2-7 when facing the best of the world (namely the United States). It definitely is harder to win gold in global tournaments as Europe’s 2-7 record proves.

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  16. Phileus
    13 years ago

    HAY GABE,

    DID U NO THAT EUROPEAN TEAMS HAVE WON 100% OF EUROLEAGUE TITLES?

    THIS PROVES CONCLUSIVELY THAT THE EUROLEAGUE > NBA

    NOT A SIGNLE NBA TEAM HAS EVER WON EUROLEAGUE, HAH HAH HAH

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  17. mike
    13 years ago

    Good one, Phileus! LOL

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  18. Mika
    13 years ago

    Greece did in fact win a “global tournament” in 1995. It’s right there in the FIBA archive.

    They also won a “global tournament” in 2002 and 2008.

    So they have won 3 world tournaments.

    They also once one the world tournament of zone champions. So if you count that, it’s 4 world tournaments.

    But in the traditional sense, of all the teams from the world that qualified competing, Greece has actually won 3 “global tournaments” in 1995, 2002, and 2008.

    So Gabe will have to come up with a new troll schtick as it is related to Greece.

    ReplyCancel
    • Gabe
      13 years ago

      I don’t know what “global tournaments” you guys are talking about since you won’t name them. The youth tounaments? Handicap tournaments? The only senior leve global tournaments are the Olympics and World Championships and Greece has never won either of those so keep dreaming.

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  19. Apollo
    13 years ago

    Greece won “global tournaments” in:

    1995
    2002
    2007
    2008

    Greece has won 4 “global tournaments”.

    Gabe, STOP with your hatred and vitriol against anything, everything, and anyone that isn’t from the USA.

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    • Gabe
      13 years ago

      Again. I don’t know what “global tournaments” you are talking about but in the senior level of men’s basketball the only global tournaments are the Olympics and World Championships neither of which Greece has ever won.

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  20. Apollo
    13 years ago

    Greece won 4 world tournaments in basketball.

    DEAL WITH IT and stop trolling.

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  21. mike
    13 years ago

    Apollo, I just checked Wikipedia, Greece has not won a MEDAL EVER in Olympic basketball, and got the Silver once when all the planets aligned, and beat the US in the 2006 Worlds.

    That’s it and that’s all !! Everybody, please check Greece National basketball in Wiki, and you’ll see for yourself. Now, we were talking about the men’s Senior basketball team, right? Because if it’s basketball for the handicaps, then I’m not sure, Greece may have won that “Global Tournament”.

    Apollo, you are so ridiculously entertaining!

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    • Gabe
      13 years ago

      Yeah he keeps repeating about 4 world tournaments but won’t mention what they are. lol

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  22. Kyle
    13 years ago

    Having the afternoon off I decided to do Apollo’s work for him.

    1995: Greece did win a global tournament, but not a senior level one. They were the u19 world champs.

    2002: Greece won the u20 European championship. So it not only wasn’t a senior competition, it wasn’t a global competition either.

    2007: I couldn’t find one fiba sanctioned event that they won, and that’s including junior competitions, female competitions, and junior female competitions.

    2008: They qualified for the Olympics, they didn’t win the tournament as there was no winner only qualifiers.

    So they won a junior global tournament, a junior continental tournament, and qualified for the olympics. That’s about it.

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  23. John
    13 years ago

    Greece won 4 “global tournaments”. This is a fact and is easily verified by a 2-3 minutes on Google.

    Damn so many people are MORONS.

    Greece national team “global tournament” championships:

    1. 1995 FIBA Under-19 World Championship: Gold Medal

    2. 2002 Albert Schweitzer Tournament

    3. 2007 ISF World High School Championship

    4. 2008 Albert Schweitzer Tournament

    So,

    Greece won the Under-17 “global” championship in 2007.

    Greece won the Under-18 “global” championship twice, in both 2002 and 2008.

    Greece won the Under-19 “global” championship in 1995.

    For good measure,

    Greece finished second in the “global” championship of Under-21 in 2005. They lost by 2 points in the final.

    Greece finished second in the “global” championship of Under-19 in 2009. They lost by points in the final, playing without their starting center who got injured in a previous tournament game.

    Greece finished second in the “global” championship of World Cup 2006.

    Greece finished third in the “global” championship of Under-19 in 2003.

    They also had second place finished in the Albert Schweitzer Tournament in 1989 and 2000, and a third place in 1996.

    So, Greece has 11 medals in “global tournaments”, 4 of them being gold medals.

    They have won world titles in the Under-17, Under-18, and Under-19 age groups, and have a second place in the senior age group.

    Anyone that thinks Greece isn’t a major world basketball power is a drooling retard.

    Greece has been in the top 4-5 teams in the world consistently over the last 25 years.

    And yes, they won the EuroBasket twice, which almost all international basketball experts peg as being the highest level tournament in the world.

    And looking at Greece’s track record, of finishing in the top 4-5 numerous times in the FIBA World Cup and the Olympics, it is just a matter of time until the win a gold in one of those tournaments.

    It’s obvious that this site is just a place for Americans to spout off their patriotic and xenophobic zealotry and to bash Europeans.

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    • Gabe
      13 years ago

      Jesus okay. Greece has never won gold in a senior level global tournament. I thought senior level would have gone without saying but okay. And I’m not bashing Greece I agree they are one of the top 4-5 teams in the world right now. But they are not one of the top 1-3. They have never won a gold in a senior level global tournament. You can not compare them to the US which has won gold in 2/3s of the global tournaments they participate in. Even Spain and Argentina are better teams because they have actually won gold in a senior level global tournament. There is a big difference between being the champion and being the runner-up, just ask Kirilenko and CSKA Moscow. As for saying it’s just a matter of time until they win gold that’s your opinion, until it happens they have never won a championship in the highest stage of basketball competition.

      And I don’t care how many “basketball experts” claim the Eurobasket is the highest level tournament in the world, perhaps they mean there are the most good teams, but the facts are that the best teams in Eurobasket are 2-7 against the rest of the world a winning percentage of .28571.

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  24. Greg
    13 years ago

    Anyone that thinks Argentina is better than Greece is nuts. The current Argentina could not even beat Greece’s B team from last summer’s EuroBasket.

    Sorry, but you lose all credibility when you call Argentina the third best team in the world. Talk about living 4 years in the past.

    You really have no clue what the hell you are talking about. That is perfectly evident with your claim that Argentina is the world’s 3rd best team. You are totally delusional.

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    • Gabe
      13 years ago

      Until they are beaten on the court they are. In the last two global tournaments, 2008 & 2010, they have done better than Greece. They won gold in the FIBA Americas championship last year. You may poo-poo the Americas championship but as I recall the only team that really challenged the USA in 2010 was Brazil, the team Argentina beat for the championship. Until Greece actually does better than Argentina in an actual tournament than yes, Argentina is better. Remember last time Greece was on the world stage they placed 11th.

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  25. Gabe
    13 years ago

    http://www.nba.com/2012/news/05/30/stern-lottery.ap/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt2

    Looks like this might be the last time the Olympics will be the “highest stage of basketball” because FIBA and the NBA is discussing making it like football, on under 23 competition. As a basketball fan it will be very disappointing but I see why owners are complaining because with the qualifiers players have to play almost every summer. In football the best players only compete once every four years in the World Cup. The FIBA WC is no where close to the World Cup in popularity, in fact the Olympics are much more popular but they want to change that it I see it makes sense.

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  26. Vic
    13 years ago

    Gabe, let’s clear something out.

    Between 2004 and 2012 Greece was the 4th best team in the world. After Spain and USA and very close to Argentina.
    In 2012 Greece is the 3d best team in the world, provided they have no absentees like they do ever since 2009. Once again won’t be the case though, cause three important players have been confirmed absent already.

    Eurobasket is the best international basketball tournament in the world, however two of the best teams, namely Argentina and USA, the latter being clearly the best, are not part of the competition.

    Explanation: Greece has two of the best domestic teams in Europe, but the Greek League is not the best in Europe. The Spanish league is better, because it’s deeper.

    Likewise, Eurobasket is much deeper than the WC, because teams (like Slovenia, Croatia, Turkey, Serbia, Italy, Germany and many others) which at occasion don’t qualify for the WC or Olympics are better than teams like Ivory Coast, Nigeria, New Zealand, China, Lebanon, Venezuela, Iran and what have you. Even teams like Bulgaria, Israel, Latvia are better than them (save China).

    Australia and Puerto Rico probably wouldn’t make the quarter finals of Eurobasket, and Brazil would not make the semi’s. Argentina in previous years would have been a medal candidate, but not anymore. USA would probably win Gold, but they would have a much harder time than they have in WC or the Olympics. Every team would go at them in Eurobasket. They would be exhausted at the end of the tournament.

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    • Gabe
      13 years ago

      You even admit the US would probably win gold, that means it is easier to win gold in Eurobasket because you don’t have to go through the US. Also I think you don’t give other countries enough credit. Brazil, Australia, China and New Zealand constantly beat European teams and the European teams that qualify for global events, not Bulgaria, Israel and Latvia.

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    • Gabe
      13 years ago

      Let’s also look at how some of those “worse” teams fared against European teams in recent competitions.

      Nigeria-beat Serbia
      Lebanon-beat France
      Puerto Rico-beat USA! (which only 4 European teams have been able to do)
      Brazil-beat Croatia
      New Zealand-beat Serbia and France
      China-beat Serbia, Germany and Slovenia
      Australia-beat Russia, Lithuania and Germany

      And those were against the top European teams that made the global competitions. Imagine how they would fare against the weaker teams in Eurobasket, like Bulgaria, Israel, Latvia that can’t qualify for global events!

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      • Aleksandar Zoran
        13 years ago

        Trinidad and Tobago beat Puerto Rico’s complete A team, and TnT was missing several players.

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        • Gabe
          13 years ago

          Yes. Puerto Rico is a funny team. They can lose to the Ivory Coast yet have beaten the USA, some thing teams like Slovenia, Croatia, Turkey and Germany have never been able to do. My point is that the top teams from America, Africa, Asia and Oceania are just as good if not better than the weaker teams from Eurobasket that never qualify for global tournaments. I mean do you think a team like FYI Macedonia would ever be able to place as high as 4th in an Olympics or even World Championship?

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  27. Apollo
    13 years ago

    Vic, please don’t waste your time trying to reason with Gabe. He’s just a troll.

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  28. mike
    13 years ago

    Hey Apollo, what time is the Flat Earth Society meeting tonight. I’ll be a little late. NOT!

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  29. Aleksandar Zoran
    13 years ago

    EVERYONE HERE ARE SOME OF THE ALTER-EGOS AND NAMES APOLLO USES IN OTHER SITES F YOU WANT TO KNOW HOW MUCH OF A JOKE HE IS:

    InsideHoop:Euroleague -he impersonates an Arkansas ugly American redneck type of character there, every post is about how great Spanoulis is they have an over 90 page long thread about him and about how much of a troll he is and how everyone thinks he is a joke
    http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=227480&page=47

    RealGM: Italia Raps Fan – tries to pose as an Italian Raptors fan while constantly bashing the NBA and praising Greeks.
    http://forums.realgm.com/boards/memb…eaed85f2650e86

    RealGM: Ricky Business – acts like he’s a Rubio fan but bashes him and praises his beloved Spanoulis
    http://forums.realgm.com/boards/memb…ofile&u=115388

    RealGM: Kill-Bill-Pana
    http://forums.realgm.com/boards/memb…ofile&u=108879

    SpursTalk: Kill-Bill-Pana – does the same shit he does on here except tries to act like he can’t speak English.
    http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=9403

    ClubLakers: Kill-Bill-Pana
    http://www.clublakers.com/member/Kill_Bill_Pana/

    ClutchFans: BEXCELENT
    http://bbs.clutchfans.net/member.php?u=22915

    ClutchFans: BBall Scientist
    http://bbs.clutchfans.com/member.php?u=24050

    Interbasket: Fiba Europe Basket – same shit he does on here; he’s apparently English now
    http://forums.interbasket.net/member.php?u=15127

    Interbasket: Vasileios Spanoulis – now he’s American
    http://forums.interbasket.net/f28/ro…s-better-6742/

    Talkbasket.net – got renamed “Forum troll” for spamming the board
    http://www.talkbasket.net/forums/ind…8-forum-troll/

    RealGM: KWSN-Men – tried to impersonate a reputable Greek poster on interbasket.

    Spurstalk: Manu_Forever – same stuff he posts here

    ReplyCancel
  30. Apollo
    13 years ago

    Os Davis, please do something about this Aleksandar Zoran guy. People should not be allowed to make claims like that here.

    He put this false claim against me on every thread here. Surely you must have some rules against this. Please remove these false spam posts by him and tell him to stop.
    Reply

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  31. Aleksandar Zoran
    13 years ago

    look Apollo or should I call you Fiba Europe Basket or do you prefer Vasileios Spanoulis? I have spoken with proof to back up my “claims”, as you called it lol. Because unlike you I actually do my research and find evidence before I open my mouth. You like to talk the talk but you won’t walk the walk

    anyways, you ave been banned so many times on these type of sites that it amazes me that your Mom still let you near a computer, don’t you ave no shame? all that garbage and propaganda that you are spreading all over basketball sites is pretty closed to the way Nazis used to spread their message. CAN YOU STOP ALREADY? SAME THAT GREECE IS THE BEST TEAM IN THE WORLD AND HAS THE BEST LEAGUE AND PLAYERS IN THE WORLD WON’T MAKE IT TRUE, NO MATTER IN HOW MANNY SITES YOU SAY THAT.

    how many more times do you need to be banned from the Internet for you to get it??? STOP IT ALREADY, you are just making a fool of yourself and quite frankly a little too pathetic too, you a re pretty sad person you know, it really is very very very sad to see that a person would throw their dignity down the toilet just so you could spread a stupid propaganda.

    Look we get it, you want the world to know that Greece is not a bad basketball country, ok we admit that, but there are better ways to do it, so stop whatever is that you are doing because as you can see by how many times you have been banned in other sites, people don’t like it.

    oh and BY THE WAY, FUNNY HOW YOU USED BASICALLY THE SAME WORDS IN YOUR LAST POST DIRECTED TO ME AS THOSE YOU USED IN INSEDHOOPS WHEN YOU WERE ALSO OUTED BY ANOTHER POSTER. gosh not even your threats are original, all you do is recycle your material from site to site.

    SO SAD

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  32. mike
    13 years ago

    Yeah Apollo, stop it with your Greek basketball fantasies. Stop creaming at night over “billy” Spanoulis because they are just not that good. Deal with it.

    Mind your chairmanship of the Flat Earth Society, and continue your investigation of UFO’s, lochness, and fairies. Now that would be better use of your time.LOL

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  33. Os
    13 years ago

    Guys, guys. I’m trying to keep the discussions in the comment section as open and uncensored as possible. I really don’t want to ban anyone. Let’s all talk basketball, not politics or personalities…

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  34. Apollo
    13 years ago

    I am leaving this site. Such false claims being said by posters here by other posters is unacceptable.

    ReplyCancel
    • Phileus
      13 years ago

      Lol. You like this site too much to actually leave 😉

      ReplyCancel
  35. fp3690
    13 years ago

    I am Greek but this is ridiculous. The only legitimate senior global tournaments are the World Championship and the Olympics. Add the Young Men’s as well perhaps, but that’s about it. Greece has once won the World Young Men’s in ’95, lost to the US in 2009 I believe, and lost to Spain for Men in 2006 (underhanded Spain my a**, we were underhanded having to play the whole tournament with 11 players). Of course the US is better, it really should be being richer and literally 30 times more populous. Clap clap clap.

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  36. mike
    13 years ago

    fp3690, at least you are one of the enlightened ones. LOL. We were just having a little fun with Apollo and his Flat Earth society type views on world basketball, and it’s hierarchy.

    We actually wish the best for Greek basketball, since it is very good for the sport that many countries play at as high a level as possible. When you guys over there develop the market, I believe that one day the NBA would expand to Europe with a team from Athens playing the Boston Celtics or my team, the Philadelphia 76ers for the World Championship.

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  37. Zahos
    13 years ago

    Who had started this stupid comparison in the first place?
    It is just stupid.
    No team can compare with US NT in basketball.Not even Yugoslavia or soviet union.
    Of course US is not unbeatable any more but still is the favorite in every competition that is in.
    On the other hand no other team of Latin America can compare to Greek NT.
    Argentina and brasil are like comets that appear and disappear so what if Argentina has won metals in WCs it is like comparing Greek NT in football with Portugal or holland and since Greece has won a euro championship say that Greece is better.
    Greece is ranked among the best teams in the world for 25 years now with ups and downs but in a sport that in Greece people watch only when football ends or when we have the game olympiakos – pao.
    On the other hand I wish that nba never expands in Europe since I consider it to be extremly boooooooooooooring!!!!!!!
    Perhaps because I feel too much devotion? Lol

    ReplyCancel
    • Gabe
      13 years ago

      Argentina has won a gold medal in the Olympics. No other team has done that in an Olympics with NBA players except the US. Argentina has placed better than Greece in the past two senior level global competitions and in four of the last five. Until Greece actually beats Argentina or places better then them in a tournament Argentina is the better team.

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  38. mike
    13 years ago

    Yeah I think Argentina edges Greece just because of the last 10 years or so. Greece has traditionally been the better team over the decades, but Argentina has been at the very top the last 10 years. Twice upsetting the Americans in the WC in Indiana in 02 and Athens in 04, and winning Gold once and Silver once and Bronze a couple of times.
    You also have to account for the no. of NBA players they have produced. Ginobili has won 3 NBA titles along with Oberto with the Spurs. Nocioni and Delfino have been solid players in the NBA at one point. Meanwhile, Greece’s only NBA prospect, Spanoulis, bombed with the Rockets.

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  39. mike
    13 years ago

    Zahos, on the NBA expanding to Europe. It could happen soon, maybe in the next 10 years. Stern has already discussed this, but with recession and the Euro’s collapse hanging over Europe, Stern may wait for better climes. If it ever happens, you can bet Athens, Barcelona, and London would be among the cities chosen just because there is a basketball tradition and/or because they have the necessary stadiums.

    It doesn’t necessarily have to be boring, as you say. You obviously prefer the international game, which is alright by me, but if the NBA moves to Europe, it will have to expand and recruit many of your favorite players. The NBA’s plan would likely involve co-opting the Euroleague, if not an outright merger.

    This happened in the US in 1976 when the older NBA merged with the newer, and more dynamic ABA. The NBA adopted many of the ABA’s rules such as the 3 point shot, which is a staple in today’s game in the NBA, college, or international.

    I think it would be exciting to see a European Division in the NBA.

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  40. zahos
    13 years ago

    I will stick to my opinion about Argentina but i respect your point.
    About NBA in Europe i don`t think it is ever going to work.
    There is a huge difference of mentality of sports between US and Europe.
    So much difference that i can’t even start explaining it to you.
    Example you say a team from Athens should be in this championship.which one?Both?You understand what pao vs oly means?or Barca vs Real?
    Perhaps maybe you suggest that pao and olympiakos should merge for better results and create team Athens team ???This day is never going to come.
    In europe a team is mostly the city and the fans in US the team decides the city that is going to be in and the fans.
    So different in so many ways……
    About the Spanoulis debate that i follow closely because is very amusing (lol) i think too that Spanoulis is a lot better than most NBA players in his position but don`t tell Apollo lol!
    Good day have to go to work!!!

    ReplyCancel
    • Gabe
      13 years ago

      Los Angeles has two basketball teams in the NBA.

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  41. zahos
    13 years ago

    @mike
    Oh i forgot! London??????
    what basketball trandition in London??
    If London ever has a basketball team that plays in the NBA then i will send a letter to Michelle Platini asking him to move the home of the Champions League winners in Minnesota or Sacramento or somewhere in US.
    Because because there is a basketball tradition and/or because they have the necessary stadiums there!
    Lol
    not as simple as you think my friend!

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  42. mike
    13 years ago

    Granted, it will not be easy for the NBA to create a European division. I bow to your knowledge of the average fan’s mentality in Athens, and I am quite sure the NBA marketing guys will bow and respect the natural rivalries intrinsic in each potential NBA territory or country. You can be sure they would hire top Euro guys to lead the NBA European division.

    Let me ask you a question as if you were the owner of Olympiacos or Pan. If the NBA, the richest basketball organization in the world, approached you and offered you entry into the NBA, would you bite at the offer?

    This would mean access to the continental US eastern and western teams, since Pan or Olym would play out a schedule in the US during the regular season. You would gain a piece of the pie with the rich TV ratings in New York, LA, Chicago, and other markets. You would join the marketing efforts in China and the increasingly basketball crazy fans there. The biggest American stars might even end up playing for one of the Greek teams which is just a dream today. Imagine Lebron or Durant playing for Olympiacos, and teaming up with everyone’s favorite, Spanoulis.

    Imagine the possibilities. Alas we are not billionaire owners, at least I’m not, but it looks exciting to me thinking about it.

    With regards to London, I’m not sure why the NBA likes playing there lately, but it might be because they are trying to tell the other European cities that if they want to join the NBA one day, they need a stadium like the one in London, I forgot the name but it starts with O, i believe.

    Spanoulis might be a good point guard, but except for that surprise win over the Americans in 2006, there is no other evidence that he can play well against NBA-level competition. When the Spurs urged him to make one last stab, he should have taken their offer. I believe Tony Parker talked to him about giving it another try. How old is he? Maybe there’s still time.

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  43. zahos
    13 years ago

    hi,
    First of all and to end this thing because i don`t want to end up like apollo!(lol)
    Spanoulis went to NBA as a very promissing player and he was treated like shit by that coach i don`t remember his name now. Most importantly he had and still has a very serious familly health issue (i don`t think it is right to talk about it though) and also the money in NBA is nothing compared to what he could get here.As a person Spanoulis has a huge ego so i guess he couldn`t stand seeing players in NBA or europe half his quality getting more money.
    Actually i think that is the reason he left pao after all to beat pao who had DD as his star and captain.
    But now the way i see it everybody is happy we have him here and we are happy , you don`t have him there and you are happy and Billy is of course happier here. So no need to fight everybody has its own opinion no big deal.And i don`t think that we should talk about this anymore.
    About the NBA Europe thing :
    From what i understand you talk about markets and money. I can`t think like presidents of team do but let me tell you this there is not one single european basketball team that it`s target is to make money actually all of them are loosing money, a lot of money so i don`

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  44. George
    13 years ago

    Spanoulis’ family health issue is extremely serious. It’s horrific that this site lets people like Gabe and Mike make fun of him for leaving the NBA over that and for fighting with his NBA coach over it when he would not let him have time off from the team (which led to his coach benching him for the year)………

    This site REALLY needs to put a stop to allowing people to make fun of something that is so serious.

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  45. zahos
    13 years ago

    hi,
    First of all and to end this thing because i don`t want to end up like apollo!(lol)
    Spanoulis went to NBA as a very promissing player and he was treated like shit by that coach i don`t remember his name now. Most importantly he had and still has a very serious familly health issue (i don`t think it is right to talk about it though) and also the money in NBA is nothing compared to what he could get here.As a person Spanoulis has a huge ego so i guess he couldn`t stand seeing players in NBA or europe half his quality getting more money.
    Actually i think that this is the reason he left pao after all to beat pao who had DD as his star and captain.
    But now the way i see it everybody is happy we have him here and we are happy , you don`t have him there and you are happy and Billy is of course happier here. So no need to fight ,everybody has its own opinion no big deal.And i don`t think that we should talk about this anymore.
    About the NBA Europe thing :
    From what i understand you talk about markets and money. I can`t think like presidents of team do but let me tell you this there is not one single european basketball team that it`s target is to make money actually all of them are loosing money, a lot of money so i don`t think that making money will do the trick.
    SInce they presidents know that they keep giving their money for the glory of the team and not for their pockets.
    Basketball is not a business here as long as it concerns the presidents.
    Also by merging everything you will destroy the different schools of basketball
    Spanish school is so different than Greek , or Lithuanian , or Serbian like a huge melting pot that take different styles of basketball and create players with superman`s physical abilities ex. lebron James but lack basketball cleverness.And you will see at least half or more of the teams in that imaginary league to play exactly the same.
    The end would be that european teams like pao and olympiakos for example would be full with average american players that do not understand what olympiakos vs pao means.And the game would be more like run,run,run,jump,jump,jump,dunk,dunk,dunk.
    When pao looses from olympiakos and vise versa a city is crying and cursing.
    European teams some are more than 100 years old are not the same like for example minessota timberwoolfs where next year could be named oklahoma timberwoolfs or something else it is something different i am sure there is something similar in US reality that we can`t understand.
    I want at least Greek teams with Greek players playing Greek school basketball and the same for USA , Spain,Lithuania and Serbia.
    Also what about the time difference?
    A game olympiakos vs US team at 4.00 in the morning?
    How could they fix that thing?
    Many many problems and i can`t see what european teams can make out of this beside money that as i explained before is not the issue.
    Making fans proud of their team is the issue.

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  46. George
    13 years ago

    The ideas of a European team playing a year schedule in the USA is totally ludicrous.

    The only way a European NBA division would ever work is if the teams in Europe only played each other, and then after a playoff, the winner faced the champion from the North American side.

    The suggestion of actually having European teams travel all over the US to play a season is absurd.

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  47. mike
    13 years ago

    Zahos, you have good and valid points. You’re obviously a purist, and I can understand that. However, at the end of the day, a basketball franchise owner is a businessman, and he is out to make money, to make a profit. In the US, no profit= no product. I know some of your countries are socialist over there, but a businessman still has to make money or eventually the product is not sustainable. This is commons sense.

    If the NBA ever expanded into Europe, as Stern plans, I am sure a Greek franchise owner in Athens will try to hire coaches or General Managers that would inculcate Greek basketball principles, and pick players that would fit this philosophy. Same with the Spanish, Serbians, and the Italians. You are right that there is a risk that a coach would be tempted, and just sign the best players and athletes(who will usually be American), but don’t you think that fans, more than anything, are interested more in winning than in keeping a particular philosophy of basketball? For instance, if Lebron can deliver Olympiacos an NBA Title in this unified future league, with some Greek players playing a prominent part, don’t you think the fans would be extremely proud of their team ? After all, basketball is now an international game, isn’t it?

    As for the schedule, it is workable. Stern had mentioned a North American team could spend 3 weeks at a time in Europe, and vice versa.

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  48. zahos
    13 years ago

    My friend Mike,
    I know it is very hard for you to understand but the owner is NOT a businessman, he is a rich fan willing to spend money for the glory of the team and he is NOT out to make money, NOT to make a profit. And please do not make the mistake to take barca,cska,makabi ,real , olympiakos ,pao ,partizan ,red star and other european teams as basketball franchises these teams are like sports schools for all sports from track n field events to table tennis and sailing , producing olympic medalists for more than 100 years lot of them in every sport that exists.Barca for example is so much more than just a team during, the Franko dictatorship in spain was the way the catalans could oppose to the dictatorship that more or less was supporting real madrid i dodn`t even know where to start from explaining this to you.
    Europeans teams are connected to their local environment.Nobody in Piraeus will care if olympiakos plays 3-4 times per year with the Boston celtics or L.A. Lakers besides the few NBA fans in the city. Celtics and Lakers for most people here are just brand names like IKEA or Reebok or IBM Computers.
    On the other hand a game between pao and oly two teams from the same city is totally different.
    Another example is that this year olympiakos fans and players what they really wanted was the Greek championship and not the euroleague. And you can read that in many players interviews.Local championships are more important than you think.
    This conversation is very nice but i think is going out of topic.
    Anyway everybody is free to have his opinion which should be respected don`t spend your time in the site trolling or answering to trolls basketball should unite people and not the either way around NBA or Euroleague.
    Here is another story that will help you understand why dinamo kiev for example will always be one of the most glorious teams in europe even if they will never win anything else: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/55771-the-death-match-dynamo-kiev-vs-the-nazis

    P.S.1 :”In the US, no profit= no product. I know some of your countries are socialist over there, but a businessman still has to make money or eventually the product is not sustainable. This is commons sense.”
    It not common sense , it is the common sense in your country perhaps.

    P.S.2 I wish goverments were a bit more Socialist in Europe and in the world . Things would have been much better. Even in France now that was elected the socialist party is not as socialist as you might think but this is not the place to talk about politics!
    Chears!

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  49. Jack
    13 years ago

    25 out of 30 NBA teams lose money every year. The NBA loses on average $350 million per season.

    This means that Mike is more full of it than any single person that posts here.

    ReplyCancel
    • Gabe
      13 years ago

      Yet the salary of one NBA superstar is equal to that of whole Euroleague teams.

      ReplyCancel
  50. Jack
    13 years ago

    Another example is that this year olympiakos fans and players what they really wanted was the Greek championship and not the euroleague. And you can read that in many players interviews.Local championships are more important than you think.

    reply

    This has already been told to Gabe and Mike here by several people. They laughed and laughed and laughed and said that anyone saying that was insane and a liar.

    You are wasting your time. These people are just here to troll.

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  51. Gabe
    13 years ago

    Do you remember the advertising campaign for the 2010 World Championships? Where they showed the basketball players as giants playing next to big buildings and such? How many Euroleague players were shown? I forgot.

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  52. Aleksandar Zoran
    13 years ago

    Apollo you said you were leaving the site, did you? what happened then?

    I thought leaving meant: “not coming back” and not “stop using a nickname and come back with a different one”

    then again I’m no linguistic so what do I know, right?

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  53. mike
    13 years ago

    Jack does sound like Apollo, right? Anyway Jack’s rants aren’t really worth answering. He sounds envious of the NBA again. To him, all we do is laugh and laugh and mock, when he is, in fact , doing the mocking. Oh well, Flat Earthers can be really stubborn! LOL

    Zahos, okay. Perhaps you do understand the Euro fans better. I believe the answer is somewhere in the middle. The NBA can can open a Euro division, but it will have to take into account many of the things you have mentioned. And I don’t even try to understand all those “schools” of basketball you mentioned.

    It’s quite different in the US.

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  54. Mag
    13 years ago

    Yet the salary of one NBA superstar is equal to that of whole Euroleague teams.

    —————————————————————————————————————

    Why does this site continue to permit this bull shit to be written here by this guy?

    ReplyCancel
    • Phileus
      13 years ago

      Haha, that’s actually true, though. For example, Kobe Bryant made $25M this year. Even after tax, that is still higher than the whole budget of almost half of the Euroleague teams.

      ReplyCancel
  55. Gerard
    13 years ago

    Haha, that’s actually true, though. For example, Kobe Bryant made $25M this year. Even after tax, that is still higher than the whole budget of almost half of the Euroleague teams.

    reply

    $25,244,000

    take out the taxes

    35% federal

    10.3% state

    8.75% local

    take out the agent fees

    4%

    = $10,589,858 net

    covert that to € euros

    = €8,459,179 euros

    Euroleague 2011-12 season basketball team budgets:

    1. CSKA – €44 million euros

    2. Barcelona – €25 million euros

    3. Panathinaikos – €24 million euros

    4. Efes – €23 million euros

    5. Olympiacos – €21.5 million euros

    6. Real Madrid – €20 million euros

    7. Fenerbahce – €19 million euros

    8. Siena – €18 million euros

    9. Baskonia – €17.5 million euros

    10. Maccabi – €17.2 million euros

    11. Malaga – €17 million euros

    12. Milan – €16 million euros

    13. UNICS – €11.5 million euros

    14. Zalgiris – €11 million euros

    15. Bilbao – €10 million euros

    16. Galatasaray – €10 million euros

    17. Cantu – €8.5 million euros

    18. Brose – €8 million euros

    19. Spirou – €8 million euros

    20. Zagreb – €5.5 million euros

    21. SLUC – €5 million euros

    22. Olimpija – €5 million euros

    23. Prokom – €4.5 million euros

    24. Partizan – €4 million euros

    That’s only more than 7 Euroleague teams. And Kobe is BY FAR the highest paid NBA player. Also, Euroleague teams have to raise their budgets next season with the new license rules and the new arena rules.

    For example, Partizan and Prokom would have to greatly raise their budgets (to more than Kobe’s net income) next year, because of the minimum budget rules they have now for contract teams. Zagreb will not be in the Euroleague, and will be replaced by Cedevita, a team with a current budget of €8 million euros, and probably would go up because of being in the Euroleague. According to rumors, it could be in the €12 million range.

    SLUC won’t be in the Euroleague next year.

    Now are we going to sit here and pretend that Olimpija, the only current Euroleague teams with a budget less than Kobe’s net salary, is representative a normal Euroleague team?

    OK, so ONE team in the whole freaking Euroleague has a lower budget than Kobe’s salary. The same Kobe that is by far and away the highest paid NBA player.

    That team, Olimpija, was playing with junior squad players last year. JUNIOR SQUAD players. And we are supposed to pretend that is a normal and typical Euroleague team?

    This is why this Gabe guy is such a classless and trashy troll. He makes absurd and outlandish exagerrations here, and by saying it over and over and over and over, he gets it to become an accepted fact.

    And all the morons that come here to read this site start to believe his trashy lies. Next thing you know, this false myth becomes “true”.

    “NBA players make more than the budgets of whole Euroleague teams”.

    FALSE and a LIE LIE LIE

    ONE NBA player made more than ONE Euroleague team’s budget. And that same Euroleague team is going to have to increase its budget by a lot or it will be out of the Euroleague. The Euroleague already said that club will be removed from the Euroleague after next season unless they start putting together a competitive team (example no more youth squad players).

    The ABA League already had to practically beg the Euroleague just to let them stay in the competition this upcoming season.

    So Gabe is a snake oil salesman, a con man, and a liar. Don’t fall for his tricks.

    It’s just simply NOT TRUE that “NBA superstars make more than the whole budgets of Euroleague teams”.

    That is total bull shit and it should not be allowed that he can make such ridiculous lies like that and get away with it here.

    ReplyCancel
    • Gabe
      13 years ago

      I don’t know how it works in Europe but in the US you count your salary before taxes. You know how much Kobe pays in taxes? Maybe he has a a good accountant and plays less than 55% of his income in taxes? Maybe he decides to donate to a charity of his choice and pays less taxes. When you ask somebody in America how much they make they tell you before taxes. Even on the Forbes richest people’s list people’s income is measured before taxes.
      You show the Euroleague team’s budgets, how much of that is used to pay players taxes? We have to subtract that from their budgets if we do it to Kobe’s salary. The more you make the more you pay taxes.
      The FACT is that Kobe’s salary is 25 million dollars which is equal to around a little over 20 million Euros which is more than all but the budgets of the top five Euroleague teams.
      You are a con man and a liar and a trashy troll Gerald. I said Kobe’s salary is more than the majority of Euroleague teams, not his salary after taxes, or after child support, or groceries or mortgage, or agent fees or housekeeper fees. I said his salary.

      ReplyCancel
    • Aleksandar Zoran
      13 years ago

      welcome back Apollo………..we missed you xD

      ReplyCancel
  56. Phileus
    13 years ago

    Hehe I knew Apollo couldn’t stay away for long 🙂

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  57. Erik
    13 years ago

    Gabe, stop being a dumb ass. The budgets of European teams are in net money. So you can’t list a gross salary of an NBA player and claim it is equal to the budget of a European club. That’s just dumb as hell.

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    • Gabe
      13 years ago

      No you are being dumb as hell. The “net” money budget is used to pay the gross salary of their players. So to really calculate the budgets it fairly to Kobe’s net salary you would have to figure how much each player on a Euroleague team pays in taxes and then subtract that from the budget. When the Lakers pay Kobe his $25 million, not $10 million, that is taken out of their $95 million net budget. You can’t have it both ways.

      ReplyCancel
  58. Aleksandar Zoran
    13 years ago

    Apollo no one pays 50 % of taxes anywhere in the world. Kobe does not live in the Soviet Union, y’know, if he does SHOW ME HE LINKS, mr. “no-link fan” isn’t that how they call your alterego “lakah fan” in inside-hoops?

    and why don you take taxes off the European team’s budget too

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  59. Miguel
    13 years ago

    No you are being dumb as hell. The “net” money budget is used to pay the gross salary of their players. So to really calculate the budgets it fairly to Kobe’s net salary you would have to figure how much each player on a Euroleague team pays in taxes and then subtract that from the budget. When the Lakers pay Kobe his $25 million, not $10 million, that is taken out of their $95 million net budget. You can’t have it both ways.

    —————————————————————————-

    God damn you are a tool.

    Euroleague teams pay the taxes for their players you IDIOT.

    STFU and GTFO of here already.

    ReplyCancel
    • Gabe
      13 years ago

      Exactly Miguel. That’s my whole point. So part of the team’s budget is used to pay their player’s taxes. The same taxes that Gerald took out from the salary of Kobe Bryant. And Aleksandar Zoran is right. Kobe does not pay 56% of his salary in taxes. The richest 1% in the US only pay 30% of their salary in taxes. http://www.myliferoi.com/2009/10/how-much-do-the-wealthy-really-pay-in-taxes/

      ReplyCancel
  60. Mike
    13 years ago

    Gabe, you are an idiot.

    ReplyCancel
  61. Mike
    13 years ago

    The Lakers don’t pay Kobe’s taxes you fool. Nor do they pay the taxes of any of their players.

    If you can’t grasp that then you must have the mental capacity of an amoeba.

    ReplyCancel
    • Gabe
      13 years ago

      No you are the idiot Mike. I was just repeating the fact that Miquel made that EUROLEAGUE teams pay the taxes of their players. So if we are going to compare Kobe’s salary to the budget of Euroleague teams we either do it before taxes when Kobe makes over $25 million which is more than the budget of all but the top five budgets of Euroleague teams but but if we want to silly like Gerald and calculate after taxes (which for Kobe would be no more than 30% of his salary) than we also have to take out of the money that the Euroleague teams pay for their player’s taxes and all other taxes as well.

      ReplyCancel
  62. Aleksandar Zoran
    13 years ago

    Apollo stop using mike’s screenname

    that’s classless

    ReplyCancel
  63. Zoran
    13 years ago

    Gabe surely is retarded. How simple is the concept that NBA teams don’t pay the player’s taxes, and that NBA players get gross money and that Euroleague teams do pay the taxes of their players and that budgets are in NET money.

    My god………..he truly is a dumb ass.

    ReplyCancel
  64. Zoran
    13 years ago

    Also, Miguel listed all the taxes that legally have to automatically come out of Kobe’s paychecks. Kobe is an employee that gets a paycheck.

    Therefore, he is legally bound to have all those deductions automatically taken from his paycheck that he gets from Lakers games.

    So Gabe does not even know the basic laws of the USA or even how a job works. He probably has never been employed in hsi whole life, as he thinks Kobe’s pay works the same way as Jerry Buss, the guy paying him.

    Truly you have to be a moron to not grasp that those deductions are required by law and are automatically taken by the US government out of any employee’s paycheck. That’s all Kobe is, an employee that gets a paycheck.

    Sure, the Lakers owner probably pays no more than 30% in taxes, or less, but Kobe is legally bound by law to pay those amounts listed by Miguel.

    For Gabe to argue against that would mean he either isn’t American and never lived in the USA, or he has never ever had a job, or both. Or just that he is mentally disabled.

    It’s amazing how Gabe can claim Kobe does not pay takes that are by law automatically deducted from his NBA game checks. Clearly, Gabe is the biggest liar to ever grace this site.

    ReplyCancel
    • Gabe
      13 years ago

      JEEZ YOU GUYS ARE RETARDED! I DON’T NORMALLY RESPOND IN CAPS BUT I AM TIRED OF POSTING FACTS AND COMMON SENSE AND BEING CALLED A LIAR. First off Miguel did not post the amounts Gerald did (looks like Apollo is getting his sock puppet posts confused) but he posted that Kobe pays 56% of his salary in taxes! Which as Alexander Zoran posted no one pays that kind of taxes anywhere in the world. I showed you a link that shows that the richest Americans pay only 30% of their salary. YET YOU CLAIM KOBE PAYS 56% OF HIS SALARY IN TAXES. SHOW ME A LINK OR ANYTHING THAT CAN BACK THAT OUTRAGEOUS CLAIM THAT KOBE BRYANT PAYS THE SINGLE HIGHEST TAX RATE IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD OR ELSE SHUT UP WITH YOUR LIES AND MENTAL RETARDATION!!!!

      Also I understand that Euroleague teams pay the taxes of their players, Euroleague teams pay the taxes of their players, yes Euroleague teams pay the taxes of their players THEREFORE PART OF EUROLEAGUE TEAMS’ NET BUDGETS GO TOWARDS PAYING THE TAXES OF THEIR PLAYERS. SO IF YOU ARE GOING TO COMPARE KOBE’S NET SALARY TO EUROLEAGUE TEAM BUDGETS THAN YOU HAVE TO SUBTRACT THE TAXES THAT THEY PAY FOR THEIR PLAYER’S TAXES AS WELL!!!

      It’s not so complicated. You people (or person) is either just messing with me or is THE BIGGEST LIAR EVER TO GRACE THIS SITE, MENTALLY DISABLED AND MY GOD…TRULY A DUMB ASS.

      ReplyCancel
  65. mike
    13 years ago

    Methinks this new “Mike” is Apollo too. Or at least another member of the Flat Earth Society, or maybe the Big Foot Club of Europe. Hehe.

    ReplyCancel
  66. Phileus
    13 years ago

    Let’s look at what Gabe said. “Yet the salary of one NBA superstar is equal to that of whole Euroleague teams.”

    To put it another way: “There are Euroleague teams whose whole budgets are less than the salaries of certain NBA players.”

    Apollo, can you honestly say that this statement is untrue? No, no you can’t.

    Why does this matter anyway? I mean, Hasheem Thabeet’s salary last year was higher than that of all the players in Kentucky, UNC, Duke, etc. etc. combined… 😛

    ReplyCancel
  67. Aleksandar Zoran
    13 years ago

    higher that UK, UNC and duke combined? wooooooouh

    NO REALL, go ask th boosters if you don’t believe me

    ReplyCancel
  68. Euroleague > NBA
    13 years ago

    Kobe and his agent both said this summer, that he only needed an €8 million euros net salary to equal the same pay that he gets from the Lakers.

    This was figuring for an Italian League net contract, with the federal taxes, that the clubs pay. That’s at 43% for the Italian League.

    So that would equal a gross salary of €11.44 million euros.

    Therefore, using the Italian tax rate (which is close enough to the other one’s in Europe for the purpose of this)………..

    then that means that Kobe’s LA Lakers salary is only more than that of 5 Euroleague teams, if we count all the teams of the 2012-13 season, and their budgets.

    So, the highest paid NBA player’s salary would only be more than the budgets of 5 Euroleague teams of the 2012-13 season.

    So Gabe is definitely exaggerating to claim that all NBA superstars make more than the budgets of over half the teams in Euroleague.

    In fact, it’s just one player, and it’s just the teams that come and go out of the league every year, because the Euroleague has a competition system, and not just a closed franchise league like the NBA.

    The teams with a Euroleague contract, that play every year, a contract Euroleague team is the same thing as an NBA franchise – meaning they have a contract to play in the league every year…….

    EVERY SINGLE ONE of those teams has a higher budget than Kobe’s NBA salary.

    The teams with lower budgets are not fixed teams and come and go out of the league on a yearly basis. The teams that are equivalent to NBA franchises…every one of them has a higher budget than Kobe’s NBA salary.

    So at the very least, Gabe is trying to twist the facts here with his claims.

    Just look at the ridiculous exaggeration of Kobe’s salary by Gabe. That he only pays 30% taxes. That is not possible if his salary only equaled to €11.44 million euros gross, as at the time, the euro to dollars exchange rate was 1.4

    So that meant that Kobe would net $16.1 million from his Lakers contract, which was at $25.2 million. That means that Kobe was paying at least 36% in taxes on that Lakers salary.

    So yeah, Gabe is just throwing around wild claims, without having any proof or evidence to back them up.

    ReplyCancel
    • Gabe
      13 years ago

      I’m throwing wild claims without having any proof or evidence? I gave a link that showed that the maxim tax for the US is only 30.9% http://www.myliferoi.com/2009/10/how-much-do-the-wealthy-really-pay-in-taxes/

      1. Show a link were Kobe and his agent said that 8 million net Euro’s would be equal to his Laker’s salary.

      2. If his gross salary would be 11.44 Euros that is still more than 11 Euroleague teams.

      3. If you are going to take the taxes out of Kobe’s salary than you also have to take out the money that the Euroleague team pays for their player’s taxes out of their budgets.

      ReplyCancel
      • Phileus
        13 years ago

        lulz

        ReplyCancel
    • Aleksandar Zoran
      13 years ago

      you just got Apollo’ed

      ReplyCancel
  69. mike
    13 years ago

    The bottom line is the Euroleague is a minor league relative to the NBA. Nowhere is it close to the NBA in talent, player’s pay, advertising money, gross revenues, scope around the world, player’s destination, or any other scale you might think of. Deal with it!!
    No American plays in the Europe who REALLY WANTS to. It was always a SECOND CHOICE. Most Euros would jump at a chance to play in the NBA, if only they were good enough. This is just another fact . Deal with it!!

    ReplyCancel
  70. RT
    13 years ago

    mike says:
    June 14, 2012 at 4.49am

    The bottom line is the Euroleague is a minor league relative to the NBA. Nowhere is it close to the NBA in talent, player’s pay, advertising money, gross revenues, scope around the world, player’s destination, or any other scale you might think of. Deal with it!!
    No American plays in the Europe who REALLY WANTS to. It was always a SECOND CHOICE. Most Euros would jump at a chance to play in the NBA, if only they were good enough. This is just another fact . Deal with it!!

    ———————————————————————————————————-

    The Euroleague makes money every year. The NBA loses money every year. So you are wrong. Period.

    ReplyCancel
    • Gabe
      13 years ago

      Here are the budgets of the top 16 NBA teams for the 2010 season: (I could only find the top 16 for some reason and as a Knicks fan I am surprised they are not here, this must have been when Walsh dumped all the salary but before the signing of Anthony?)

      1. LA Lakers – 95 Million
      2. Orlando Magic – 90 Million
      3. Dallas Mavericks – 86 Million
      4. Boston Celtics – 83 Million
      5. Denver Nuggets – 83 Million
      6. Houston Rockets – 73 Million
      7. Utah Jazz – 71 Million
      8. Philadelphia 76ers – 69 Million
      9. Atlanta Hawks – 69 Million
      10. New Orleans Hornets – 68 Million
      11. Milwaukee Bucks – 68 Million
      12. Portland Trail Blazers – 68 Million
      13. San Antonio Spurs – 65 Million
      14. Detroit Pistons – 65 Million
      15. Indiana Pacers – 64 Million

      As you see CSKA who’s budget is almost 20 million Euro’s more than the 2nd highest Euroleague budget) has a budget that is equal to around $56.3 million which would not put them in the top 16 in the NBA. As you can see the difference between the budgets of NBA teams gets less and less so I would hazard to say that CSKA’s budget would put them in the bottom 5 of NBA in terms of budget and the rest of the Euroleague teams with the next team Barcelona making the equivalant of $31.5 will not even be close to being on the list.

      ReplyCancel
  71. RT
    13 years ago

    Gabe says:
    June 13, 2012 at 10.54pm

    2. If his gross salary would be 11.44 Euros that is still more than 11 Euroleague teams.

    ———————————————————————-

    FALSE

    ReplyCancel
  72. Aleksandar Zoran
    13 years ago

    Apollo just saying false is not an argument, y’know

    ReplyCancel
  73. mike
    13 years ago

    Rt, of course the NBA can and does lose money from time to time, but there is a reason the NBA is the best league in the world, by far. Owners know that it always turns around as sure as the sun rises in the morning. After all, it has been the dominant league in the world for over 60 years now.

    ReplyCancel
  74. Guy
    13 years ago

    The NBA lost $1.85 billion over the last 5 years, according to numerous US media sources.

    So stop bragging about the NBA making money. It’s practically on the verge of ceasing to exist, from a financial standpoint.

    ReplyCancel
    • Gabe
      13 years ago

      Hahaha ceasing to exist. They are having the best ratings in 8 years. I don’t know whose losing the money but I’m bragging about how much higher NBA teams budgets are than Euroleague.

      ReplyCancel

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