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Follow the leader: FIBA commission likely to approve NBA court dimensions, rules

January 2, 2013

This one goes out by request. After a few hours of research (and lots of time spent frustratingly chasing dead ends) BallinEurope comments on FIBA’s first big official move of 2013 – the seemingly inevitable rule changes coming to international basketball representing further acquiescence in the shadow of the NBA.

The story
So here’s what’s known. Back in July, a group of 13 from all around the basketball and business worlds produced a list of proposals under the auspices of the Euroleague’s Basketball Rules Summit.

The summit’s chief goal was to tweak the game to make “the competitions cleaner, fairer and more exciting,” and while most prescribed changes were cosmetic (e.g. jump-ball rules, timeout changes), one radical idea then put forth would make the uniform standard court size based on NBA specifications.

In late November, the Euroleague Commercial Assets Assembly (CAA) met on the subject of certain proposed rule changes with regard to, well, the bottom line of top-level European basketball clubs. While the CAA typically addresses and assesses issues connected with ticket sales, broadcast rights, investment, corporate social responsibility, etc., the commission took it upon itself to discuss two wide-sweeping transformations: the recommendations from the summit and FIBA’s proposed reshaping of international tournaments.

After this meeting, the CAA agreed to send onto FIBA the rule-change proposals, including:

• A wider court in order to increase the spacing for offensive players.

• Reducing the technical foul penalty to one free throw and possession.

• Disqualifying any player charged with two technical fouls.

• Resetting the twenty-four second shot clock to fourteen seconds after an offensive rebound instead of twenty-four seconds.

• Replacing one sixty second timeout in each half with one twenty second timeout, limiting the number of timeouts to a maximum of two per team in the last two minutes of the fourth period.

• Re-introducing the jump ball for all alternating possession situations, with the team winning the opening jump ball getting possession to start the fourth period, the team losing the opening jump ball getting possession to start the second and third periods, using a jump ball to start every extra period.

(From this list, it is interesting to note that the only proposal that Euroleague officials felt required justification is that first, most radical, most NBA-esque proposal of the lot…)
Meanwhile, “members reviewed the new World Calendar Competition Formats that FIBA approved recently. While agreeing that having national teams play official games locally was a positive move, the assembly expressed disagreement with the timing of those games as they would interrupt the clubs’ competition calendar. They also voiced concern that the expanded national team calendar would not include all of the world’s best players and would not allow for athletes to rest.”

Proposals and concerns are now in the hands of the FIBA Technical Commission which, according to the Euroleague, is slated to meet in January.

Remember those dead ends BiE mentioned? The Technical Commission are they. On the FIBA website, the current makeup of this 13-person group may be found; not much telling information can be found, though it might be noted that just four of the members are not representing North America or Europe.

Other than this list of information? Well, BiE turned up depressingly little on the FIBA Technical Commission or the January 2013 meeting. FIBA offices have been closed since December 19, though reportedly are open on January 3, so BiE will have to try that avenue tomorrow (stay tuned).

Impressions, effects
On the face of the it, the proposed increase in court size is hardly a massive change. In switching from 28 x 15 meters to 28.65 x 15.24 meters, the Euroleague’s effort to “increase the spacing for offensive players” will result in about 3.8% more room (about 8.25 square meters in the half-court).

For comparison’s sake, conformity to the NBA’s game clock would represent a 20% increase in game time. And if the 3.8% greater space is instantly turned into points, the difference is about one three-pointer per team per game: In the last three completed Euroleague seasons, the average team scored 75.4, 74.25 and 74.6 points per game, respectively.

But Euroleague (and most likely FIBA) is hoping for more than a direct translation of time-to-points with this move. What’s strange on this level is that any increase in floor space most directly addresses a strategy very few Euroleague teams employ, i.e. those game plans depend on clogging and/or dominating the middle with at least two big bodies. A wider court would immediately affect the Nenad Krstices and Stephane Lasmes of Europe, denying opportunities to draw fouls inside while also requiring defensive positioning a few feet further away from the hoop. And a defensive glass-first Pete Mickael types might rapidly (and perhaps unfairly) lose some perceived value on the open market.

In general, though, scoring will increase in most leagues as the already much more wide-open game played on The Continent expands further. As soon as the new court dimensions are installed internationally, the Euroleague’s urge for “more exciting” basketball (term in quotes because we all know that translates as “higher-scoring”) is certain to be satisfied. Still, if this is the solution publicly proffered for the non-issue of potentially dominant CSKA Moscow or Maccabi Tel Aviv frontcourts Euroleague types, they’re kinda killing a mosquito with a bazooka here. What’s next? The defensive three-seconds rule?

The message
“Ez van” is an oft-used expression in Hungarian. Literally translated as “There is this” or even “This exists,” the best English-language equivalent is perhaps “That’s the way it is,” though this translation lacks the gravity and resignation of the Magyar version.

It is this “ez van” feeling that BiE gets from the Euroleague and FIBA’s recent ideas. While it can be saliently argued that homogenization of rules is positive – even necessary – in the ever-increasingly international game, the reality is that the NBA and its promises of related multi-million dollar/euro deals are international basketball’s unilateral power and primary driving force. The FIBA/NBA relationship is threatening to become tantamount to that between the United Nations and USA in which the former acts as a fair international arbiter while the check-writing latter is the only truly calling the shots (so to speak). The relationship also serves to remind us in crystal-clear fashion of who the 1% in international basketball really is.

What’s unfortunate for European basketball in all this is FIBA’s apparent presumption that decisions made on their level will be ramrodded through after approval (tacit or otherwise) from the NBA offices. Going into the Technical Commission meeting, the Euroleague appears in line with most changes FIBA is set to implement: What leverage will The Continent have in overturning the incoming reworked plan for international tournament play?

BallinEurope despairs that there is little hope for autonomy in international basketball; not with that NBA spectre looming.

Ez van.

Jan 2, 2013ballineurope
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This post was published on January 2, 2013
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Comments: 71
  1. FIBA
    12 years ago

    Os Davis, the results of the annual the best player that played in Europe award….

    Voting results:

    1. Vassilis Spanoulis – PG (6’4″)

    2. Dimitris Diamantidis – G (6’5″)

    3. Andrei Kirilenko – SF (6’10”)

    4. Erazem Lorbek – PF (6’11”)

    5. Nenad Krstic – C (7’0″)

    6. Juan Carlos Navarro – SG (6’4″)

    7. Bo McCalebb – PG (6’0″)

    8. Mike Batiste – C (6’9″)

    9. Rudy Fernandez – SF (6’6″)

    10. Jonas Valanciunas (played in 2nd tier Eurocup) – C (7’0″)

    11. David Hawkins (played in 3rd tier EuroChallenge and 2nd tier Eurocup) – SF (6’5″)

    12. Milos Teodosic – PG (6’5″)

    13. Henry Domercant – SG (6’4″)

    14. Alexey Shved – SG (6’6″)

    15. Sonny Weems – SF (6’6″)

    16. Kostas Papanikolaou – SF (6’9″)

    17. Viktor Khryapa – PF (6’9″)

    18. David Andersen – C (6’11”)

    19. Georgios Printezis – PF (6’9″)

    20. Zoran Planinic – PG (6’7″)

    The yearly winners of the best player that played in Europe award:

    Dejan Bodiroga – SF (6’9″) – 2002

    Arvydas Macijauskas – SG (6’4″) – 2003

    Sarunas Jasikevicius – G (6’5″) – 2004

    Sarunas Jasikevicius – G (6’5″) – 2005

    Theo Papaloukas – G (6’7″) – 2006

    Dimitris Diamantidis – G (6’5″) – 2007

    Ramunas Siskauskas – SF (6’6″) – 2008

    Juan Carlos Navarro – SG (6’4″) – 2009

    Juan Carlos Navarro – SG (6’4″) – 2010

    Juan Carlos Navarro – SG (6’4″) – 2011

    Vassilis Spanoulis – PG (6’4″) – 2012

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  2. Gabe
    12 years ago

    But, but, but where is Bourousis?

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  3. FIBA
    12 years ago

    Bourousis? He played all of the last season with a severe knee injury.

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    • Gabe
      12 years ago

      Does that explain why he was so horrible this summer and this season. It says a lot when the best center in Europe is Krstic.

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    • Gabe
      12 years ago

      Jeez Bourousis is brittle. Another softy like Greg Oden. He is not even conditioned to make it through those short Euroleague seasons with 40 minute games. lol No wonder he gets dominated by the like of Nigeria he is not even close to NBA conditioning. How many NBA games do you think he would last before he gets another “severe knee injury”? 10? 20? Another big, slow Euro who has no conditioning? Maybe he should play in the wheelchair league, at least there he might have a chance of making to the next round!

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      • Michael
        12 years ago

        Amazing how brittle Ricky Rubio is. Poor scrub can’t even last through a no defense NBA season.

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  4. FIBA
    12 years ago

    Bourousis had the injury during the pre Olympic tournament. He did not have the injury this season. Played horribly? He led all Euroleague in rating. Please do not start trolling here.

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    • Gabe
      12 years ago

      He could not advance his team out of the Euroleague regular season. That’s pretty horrible if you ask me.

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  5. FIBA
    12 years ago

    OK, I see that this site’s resident troll is this Gabe guy. Why does every site allow these trolls? FIBA bans trolls.

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  6. mike
    12 years ago

    Borousis is a beast. An absolute beast who averages 7.5ppg and 5.4rpg for his Euroleague career! Yeah right.

    Ratings can be overated, and should be put in context especially if your team doesn’t advance deep into the playoffs.In other words, use common sense.

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  7. Dan P.
    12 years ago

    Bourousis is 7th all time in Euroleague history in rebounds.

    http://www.euroleague.net/main/statistics?mode=Leaders&entity=Players&seasonmode=All&cat=TotalRebounds&agg=Accumulated

    Bourousis is 6th all time in Euroleague history in blocked shots.

    http://www.euroleague.net/main/statistics?mode=Leaders&entity=Players&seasonmode=All&cat=BlocksFavour&agg=Accumulated

    Yes, that is definitely a beast. You people are trolls. You don’t get to be in the top 6 to 7 all time in stats categories being a scrub. This site has an incredibly high troll factor.

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    • Gabe
      12 years ago

      Behind such great players as Mirsad Turkcan (as a Knick fan I remember him as the Knicks’ 12th man for a season) and Mike Batiste.

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  8. Jack
    12 years ago

    Gabe is a psychopath. He probably has a poster on his bedroom wall with Bourousis’ head on it, and he probably fantasizes about eating it.

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  9. mike
    12 years ago

    You really can’t spin your way out of 7.5ppg and 5.4rpg averages for a career. As many athletes like to say, it is what it is. Now if Borousis won a bunch of championships and did better in international play, you can probably get away saying he’s been a team player, and thus the low stats, but his recent history of team disappointments is clearly a red flag of failure.

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    • Erik
      12 years ago

      Rubio = injury prone (hey no excuse since you claim Bourousis playing with an injury is NOT excused), terrible stats in Europe (WAY worse than Bourousis) and his team has recently SUCKED DICK.

      Could not “lead his team to the playoffs” – obviously a lot of RED FLAGS for that fucking SCRUB.

      SCREW YOU you racist POS

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      • Gabe
        12 years ago

        Ricky is injury prone in five, 48 minute, games per week NBA. His stats of 5.5 ppg and 3.5 apg and 2 spg in Euroleague is not that much worse than Bourousis’s stats. (for example Rubio’s 3.5 apg average would put him 20th in assists this season while Bourousis’ 5.4 rpg would put him 17th in rebounds this season)

        But more importantly Rubio was a starting pg and major contributor for a Euroleague champion. And when did he not led his team to the playoffs? The year after winning the Euroleague champion (his last year in Europe) he still led Barca to quarter-finals. No pathetic regular season exit like poor, lame, injury prone Bourouis who has never won a Euroleague championship or any medal in Olympic or World Championship play. What a loser!!.

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        • Michael
          12 years ago

          You are a fucking moron. Rubio has missed the playoffs in both the Euroleague and the NBA. Bourousis has won the European championship.

          You are a LIAR LIAR LIAR LIAR LIAR LIAR LIAR LIAR LIAR LIAR “IAR

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          • Gabe
            12 years ago

            We’re not talking about the NBA which is more difficult. Rubio’s last two seasons in Euroleague, when he was over 18, he made the playoffs.

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  10. mike is a liar and a creep
    12 years ago

    Rubio averaged 6 and 4 in Euroleague in his career. According to you and Gabe he was dominant in Euroleague and the greatest guard Europe ever saw.

    Really can’t spin your way out of your double standard, trolling, and lying.

    And Bourousis has won championships as has already been pointed out here on numerous occasions.

    You guys are very, very, very mentally disturbed.

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    • Gabe
      12 years ago

      No one, me included, has ever claimed Rubio was dominant in Euroleague or the greatest Euroleague guard, we just claimed that he was not a scrub in Euroleague.

      And Bourousis has never won a Euroleague championship so what are you talking about? You mean Greek championships where there are only two competitive Greek teams so every player has 50% of winning a Greek championship every year.

      Bourousis is such a loser that the year he left Olympiacos is the year they finally won a Euroleague championship. Coincidence? It seems any team Bourousis plays on is a loser.

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      • Erik
        12 years ago

        Bourousis won the European championship you fucking RACIST ASSHOLE

        FUCK YOU

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      • Erik
        12 years ago

        It’s fucking hilarious how you claim only two teams win a championship in Greece, when Bourousis played on a DIFFERENT team. You fucking DICKHEAD.

        He played on AEK and won the championship in Greece. Once again you are exposed as motherfucking lying PIECE OF DOG SHIT.

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        • Gabe
          12 years ago

          Okay, so there are three competitive teams in the Greek league…it must be a step above the Albanian league! lol

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          • Jfreeze
            12 years ago

            Can someone tell me why the owner of this site allows Gabe to taunt and troll European basketball here every day? I don’t understand the logic in this. This is supposed to be a site about European basketball, but all I ever see here if I come to read an article is a bunch of taunting and trolling from Gabe and his buddy mike.

            This is really very bizarre. It does nothing at all but turn off normal people that come here to discuss European basketball. It’s really very sad that this site allows this to go on. It’s really quite pathetic.

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  11. mike
    12 years ago

    Indeed, Gabe and Euro Weirdo, we never said Rubio was a dominant Euroleague player. We all know he is very young and still a developing player. I did a little research and he was obviously far from a scrub despite mostly pedestrian numbers.

    Rubio won:

    2x he led ACB in steals 2007,2009
    won ACB Rising Star Award 2007
    3x FIBA Euro Young Player Award 2007-2009
    2x ACB Best Point Guard 2007, 2009
    2x All ACB League Team 2007,2009
    Italian Super Basket Magazine Euro Player of the Year 2008
    Catalan Cup Tournament MVP
    Euroleague Rising Star Award 2010

    I realize the ACB is not the Euroleague, but the ACB is considered the top national league in Europe. Anyone can correct me if I’m wrong about this.

    b

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  12. Erik
    12 years ago

    2x he led ACB in steals 2007,2009
    won ACB Rising Star Award 2007
    3x FIBA Euro Young Player Award 2007-2009
    2x ACB Best Point Guard 2007, 2009
    2x All ACB League Team 2007,2009
    Italian Super Basket Magazine Euro Player of the Year 2008
    Catalan Cup Tournament MVP

    Not one of those things has anything to do with Euroleague. Why the fuck did you list them to talk about what he did in Euroleague? Are you a fucking retard?

    And United League is considered the best domestic league in Europe, not ACB.

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    • Gabe
      12 years ago

      In his post her commented that he knows the ACB is not Euroleague but it is still a top European league, if not the best the one of the two best.

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  13. mike
    12 years ago

    The ACB has 4 teams playing in the 2012-2013 Euroleague season. More than any other domestic league. True or false?

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  14. mike
    12 years ago

    Sorry Spain’s ACB has 4 teams playing in the Euroleague 2012-2013 season is what I meant. More than any country. Is this true?

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    • Jfreeze
      12 years ago

      VTB league (counts as Russia’s national league) also has 4 Euroleague teams.

      And this has no bearing or pertinence to that matter anyway. The Euroleague does not have a system like UEFA in football. They don’t simply give places based on how good they think a league is. They have wild cards and contracts as part of it.

      For example, Spanish League only has THREE places in Euroleague. NOT 4. ONLY 3. That is based on the “strength of the league”. The reason 4 teams play in it is because of contracts, which are related to things other than performance (attendance, TV ratings and crap like that).

      Sometimes that league would have 5 teams, because Eurocup also figures into it. A team that wins Eurocup is in Euroleague and that also has nothing at all to do with the national leagues.

      Or did you actually think that Malaga earned a spot in the Euroleague after finishing in 9th place in the Spanish League last season?

      http://www.eurobasket.com/Spain/basketball-League-ACB_2011-2012.asp

      Did you actually think that ALBA earned a spot after finishing in 5th place in the German League last season?

      http://www.eurobasket.com/Germany/basketball-League-BBL_2011-2012.asp

      The number of places a national league has in the Euroleague is not just based on how good the league is. Obviously, in the above two examples for instance, it has actually NOTHING at all to do with the performance of the league or the team.

      It’s just about attendance and TV ratings solely basically.

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      • Gabe
        12 years ago

        I only count two Russian league teams in Euroleague Cska and Khimki, who are the other two.

        That being said not only are 4 Spanish teams in Euroleague but all 4 have advanced to the top 16 and have 6-2 record so far in the top 16. ACB is the deepest national league.

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        • Michael
          12 years ago

          The UNITED LEAGUE is Russia’s domestic league now. How retarded are you? How many times do simple things have to be explained to you?

          Are you a fucking meth head or what?

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  15. mike
    12 years ago

    You know it’s not really hard to check info on the Euroleague in Wiki which has everything you could possibly need as an overview of the league. First, Gabe is correct. There are only 2 Russian teams, Khimki and Cska.

    Second, it is NOT true that domestic league performance has nothing to do with team selections for the Euroleague. A licenses are given to 14 teams which are based on “competitive performance, TV revenues, and home attendance.” A licenses are given for a 3 year basis. B licenses are given to 8 teams, 7 of which is “directly based on the ranking of the domestic league”. B licenses are given for a 1 year basis. There are also C licenses which is based on the winner of the Eurocup. There are other details on this. Check Wiki, but the point is team performance and domestic league rankings are very much considered. Can anyone dispute this?

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    • Michael
      12 years ago

      The United League is Russia’s domestic league you idiot.

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    • Michael
      12 years ago

      You are a complete fucking piece of shit. As was pointed out to you correctly, Malaga and Alba are only in the Euroelague due to contracts due to attendance and TV ratings.

      Now, if you can prove that the 9th placed Spanish team and the 5th placed German team “earned” places in Euroleague based on “results” then please do so. Otherwise shut your god damn pie hole and fuck off.

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  16. mike
    12 years ago

    I want to share something with the serious fans and the troll here on this site. We know who he is.

    Anyway, this was written by an NBA Lead writer named Josh Martins from the Bleacher Report. He’s an amateur, but he seemed to know what he was talking about. Try googling the article and see his justifications for the best leagues in the world not named the NBA. I will give his top 5.

    1. Liga ACB- Spain
    2. Heba A1- Greece
    3. Liga National De Basquet- Argentina
    4. Lega Basket Serie A- Italy
    5. Turkish Basketball League

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    • Michael
      12 years ago

      That’s the most ridiculous thing imaginable. Argentina’s League is a POS. It’s much lower than a league like Belgium League.

      Those leagues better than Euroleague, or even Eurocup or United League – I laughed for a good 10 minutes.

      The guy that wrote that is a fucking gigantic idiot.

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  17. Michael
    12 years ago

    OMG he said the Chinese League is better than the French League………

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1291287-power-ranking-the-best-basketball-leagues-in-the-world-outside-of-the-nba/page/3

    hahahahahahahahahahahahahah

    mike you are the biggest motherfucking moron ever at this site if you actually believe that guy has the first damn fucking clue as to what he is talking about.

    You pretty much PROVED to every European that will ever visit this site that you DO NOT KNOW SHIT ABOUT BASKETBALL and that are a FUCKING IDIOT.

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  18. mike
    12 years ago

    First of all, you have absolutely no class with all that vulgar language. This just proves what we’ve been saying here before : you are hiding something and totally insecure Euro Weirdo.

    Second, there are 4, count them 4 Spanish teams, playing in the Euroleague. There are 2 Russian , count them 2, teams playing in the Euroleague. Whatever you say about contracts and TV ratings, well, this is not what Wiki says. It is a criterion, but domestic league rankings are a basis also. You should get back on the prescription program of drugs your doctor gave you, please!

    Also, I didn’t say I totally agreed with that lead writer, Josh Martin. However ,you can’t just dismiss the Argentinian League because they have produced a golden generation of players that have won internationally at the highest levels, and many of these players are now in the NBA or in the Euroleague, and they have won championships and MVPs.

    With the Chinese CBA, I agree that’s a little off-base, but his point was there were many washed up NBAers playing there, and they still produced Yao Ming and Yi. You know, the Greek league is 2nd in his ranking, but they have not produced internationally lately, and no significant NBAers to speak of. As the primary league in the world(NBA), these domestic leagues contributions to the NBA should be a measuring stick.

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  19. mike and Gabe sitting in a tree
    12 years ago

    Wow this guy mike is a fucking idiot. Argentina’s league? Are fucking kidding me? GTFO! You should not even be allowed to post at this site.

    The fucking Argentine league? My fucking god…………………………..

    Is this the same Argentine league that every single decent Argentine player leaves to go play in leagues like Italy, Greece, and Spain, or SECOND DIVISION of those countries?

    Many of the best Argentine players play in the SECOND divisions in Italy or Spain because they say it is a HIGHER LEVEL than the Argentine league. Serious, get the fuck off of this forum if you are going to post absolute absurdly outlandish and ludicrous bullshit like that.

    Trolling and lying which you do all the time here is one thing, but posting totally outrageous shit like that is completely unacceptable.

    As for the Russian teams, I will explain this to you, even though it has already been explained several times. But since you are clearly a drooling retard, it is obvious that you are mentally incapable of grasping the simplest of concepts on your own

    There is a league called the VTB United League. It is the current version of the USSR Soviet League. Under EUROLEAGUE RULES it counts as the NATIONAL DOMESTIC LEAGUE OF RUSSIA.

    “Russian League” games take part during this league, when two Russian clubs play each other. These games are then counted towards the regular season standings in “Russian League”. They do have a playoff and championship, but that does NOT count towards Euroleague rankings or placements.

    The United League games and results are what are used by Euroleague to determine places and rankings. Thus, the United League is officially considered the national domestic league of Russia by Euroleague.

    Which is nothing strange, as again, this is nothing more than the modern day USSR League.

    Now, educate yourself you freaking dumb ass, and STOP TROLLING HERE.

    This is the freaking United League —>

    http://www.vtb-league.com/en/home/home.htm

    As you can see, it has FOUR Euroleague teams, not 2. It also has numerous Eurocup teams. Clearly, that league is much stronger than the Spanish League, and anyone saying otherwise is a complete retard.

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  20. Russ
    12 years ago

    You can not call VTB United League a Russian League or former USSR League as it is not true. And it is also not correct to call that league a domestic league. First of all, yes, all 9 russian teams play in this league as in domestic league and when they meet each other it counts as a national championship games, but there are also 3 teams from Lithuania (Zalgiris and Lietuvos rytas from Euroleague), 2 from Ukraine and 1 team each from Latvia, Estonia, Belarus, Kazachstan, Poland and Czech Rep. All teams besides those from Russia also play in their national leagues. Second, Poland and Czech Rep. were never in the USSR.
    VTB United League is more like a Adriatic League where teams from various countries of that region compete, but they also play in their national championships.

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    • redikas
      12 years ago

      I hate to break this to you, but Lithuanian clubs in VTB league consider it their main domestic league. Same with Russian clubs. Zalgiris and Rytas only plays some games in LKL (Lithuania league) here and there until the playoffs.

      Every week when the schedule is on they are playing in United league. So it is true this is the same as the domestic league. You say is like Adriatic basket, but this is strange because everyone in old Yugoslav countries that play in Adriatic basket consider it there domestic league.

      Every single team. Euroleague counts it for places and also the teams don’t even play their national league at all. They just play in playoffs like Russian clubs from VTB league. So you are wrong and these other guys are right. VTB league is for sure consider as the main domestic league for most of these club. Especially ones from Russia and Lithuania.

      Some people here like to talk a lot without knowing what they are talking about. You should have even mention Adriatic basket because for all the clubs in it is there domestic league.

      I ask serious question, what is the logic some of you that post here all the time use? A team plays every week in VTB or Adriatic leagues and does not even play their national league until playoffs, or plays national league rarely, and you say this is not their domestic league?

      This is just stupid. For some clubs of VTB this might be true. Like Astana that plays in Kazakhstan. So if you play a national league with no European league then this would be true. But is definitely not true for Lithuanian and Russian clubs.

      Maybe some of you American experts should learn some things first before you spend all your days calling Europeans here liars and trolls just because you are the ones that do not know anything about European basketball and are always wrong on every single argument I have ever seen in this website. You Americans sound like spoiled 12 years old brats that are not getting their way and are throwing little temper tantrums.

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  21. Russ
    12 years ago

    And by the way, Michael, you may try to call somebody from Lithuania a russian and see what happens 🙂 good luck with that 🙂

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    • redikas
      12 years ago

      I saw no one call Lithuanian people as Russians. You just make this up as more nonsense as you post. What they say is true. VTB league is like the domestic league for big Lithuanian clubs. I have no idea why you try to dispute this here other than you simply do not know anything that you are talking about.

      Just like you say Adriatic basket isn’t domestic league, when it is for all the clubs that are in it and this is a fact. So you do not know what you are talking about.

      Why don’t you call some Canadians as Americans then? Same nonsense logic. You call NBA domestic league, national league, US league, American’s league and all that. So to use your same logic you are insulting Canadians and Canada.

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  22. mike
    12 years ago

    Thank you for enlightening us Russ. I’m clearly not an expert in Euro basketball, but I can hold my own against that Euro Weirdo posting above.

    Here’s what Wiki says about VTB United League : “is an INTERNATIONAL proffesional basketball league founded in 2008. It’s goal is to unite the leading basketball clubs of Eastern Europe and Northern Europe together into one league.” Clear as day!! Are you really willing to go back in time and call all these defunct Warsaw Pact countries part of Russia? Are you out of your mind? You know, the Berlin Wall collapsed, and there were revolutions during the late 80’s and 90’s. Or were you in the basement during that time?

    There are 2(two) RUSSIAN teams in the Euroleague, not Soviet teams, not pre-communist revolution of 1917 teams, but 2(two), CSKA and Khimki. Period.

    ReplyCancel
    • redikas
      12 years ago

      NBA is also “international league”. So if we use the logic of a little kid, like you then we will see that NBA is NOT domestic league. It can’t be under your definition. NBA is calls as domestic league in USA and around the world.

      But this is false. If VTB league isn’t domestic league then neither is NBA. You cannot have it both ways.

      ReplyCancel
    • redikas
      12 years ago

      mike says:
      January 8, 2013 at 4.29pm

      I’m clearly not an expert in Euro basketball

      >

      Then why are you here every day telling everyone all these things you say are facts and anyone that disagrees with anything you or gabe says is a liar and a troll? The people that does not know anything about any of these matters which is you and gabe are the liars and the trolls.

      You know nothing about anything you ever talk about here but you state what you say is total fact and that anyone says something different is Euro troll and Euro homer and Euro nut and all this such names.

      Then here you just admit the truth that you do not know shit about any of this stuff. Is very sad how you act when we consider that you false accuse others here that tell the truth of always being liars. You really are bad guys.

      ReplyCancel
  23. mike
    12 years ago

    @redikas. The difference with the NBA is although the Toronto Raptors of Canada are part of the NBA— they don’t have a domestic league they play on. Some of these teams in the VTB play in their own domestic leagues. Is this correct? And again I will defer to you guys since you and Russ seem more knowledgeable about this.

    If I’m wrong, I’m willing to concede unlike the main Troll on this site MR. Euro Weido. My only original point is that the ACB of Spain is the top domestic league outside the NBA. That was it really. If you want to now say that the VTB and ACB are the top two, I’m okay with that.

    BTW, if you have been reading this site for some time, you will know who the real troll on this site is. It’s not me or Gabe, but the guy calling people mother#%&*, and other profane language. It’s a shame you don’t call out this troll on his vulgar language which clearly diminishes a good debate.

    ReplyCancel
  24. DallasTexasSaqartvelo
    12 years ago

    It doesn’t matter anyway… If Russia had it their way than Astana would be apart of the Kazakh CCP lol….

    As it stands it’s just another way for a notoriously expansionist state to extend its influence…. BTb is still Russian as much as the NBA is still American.

    Still not anywhere near the ACB in talent level top to bottom though….

    But if we are counting all domestic leagues…. the NBA is FAR AND AWAY the best… the rest just don’t even really matter.

    ReplyCancel
  25. DallasTexasSaqartvelo
    12 years ago

    BTW… Does Apollo still post here?? I really hope not.

    ReplyCancel
    • Gabe
      12 years ago

      The troll who used the name Apollo hasn’t used that name in years but he uses dozens of other aliases.

      ReplyCancel
  26. mike
    12 years ago

    You said it, Dallas. My opinion is most of these leagues are so irrelevant to world basketball, considering how powerful the NBA has become. You don’t have to believe me, just read the article above posted by the site owner.

    Anyway, the Russians have their own league and the Lithuanians also have a domestic league. but they get together with the Poles, Swiss, and Czechs for the United. And now they want us to consider the United a domestic league also like the ACB. Okay, no problem .

    The original point stands that the ACB is the best, if not one of the two best, if you consider the United a domestic league. The United would then have 4 teams in the Euroleague, but as Gabe pointed out, 4 teams from the ACB have advanced to the top 16 of the Euroleague.

    ReplyCancel
  27. mike
    12 years ago

    BTW, for those really interested, type in Google world’s best baketball leagues and you will see a list very similar to the list of leagues I got above from Josh Martin, an amateur NBA Lead Writer for the Bleacher report. For instance, everyone knows ESPN’s Dime Magazine, they have a list headed by the ACB, of course, and the Greek league, second. But surprise surprise, China is no. 5, not because they have the same level of talent as the leagues of Europe, but because there are some washed up, but still entertaining NBAers there.

    The Agerntina league is no.3 in Dime’s list, BTW. So Josh Martin’s list is not so ridiculous, after all. Anyone who disagrees, please type in Google “best basketball leagues in the world”. There is even a list in Interbasket headed by the NBA, of course, the ACB, and then the Greek League. Those are the mainstays.

    ReplyCancel
  28. Panos
    12 years ago

    Gabe says:

    “We’re not talking about the NBA which is more difficult. Rubio’s last two seasons in Euroleague, when he was over 18, he made the playoffs.”

    ————————————————————–

    We’re not talking about the NBA which is more difficult. Rubio’s last two seasons in Euroleague, when he was over 18, he made the playoffs.

    Rubio missed the playoffs in Euroleague. So you basically just lied. You say a player sucks if he cannot make Euroleague playoffs, then you claim Rubio as a godo player, even though he didn’t make the Euroleague playoffs.

    It’s amazing considering you said here about 100 times that Bobby Brown is the best player in Europe. Funny, considering his team probably won’t make the Euroleague playoffs, as they play absolutely zero defense and can’t rebound. Brown is also probably the worst defender in the entire Euroleague and is ball hogging the hell out of every game.

    Typically, teams like that do not make it past the Top 16, and thus don’t make the playoffs.

    You have an EXTREME bias and double standard when you are talking about any player that is Greek. You are probably an Albanian immigrant that lives in Macedonia, or a FYROM Greek hater. If not, then you are just a mega troll.

    It’s also hilarious that you think it’s “harder” to make the NBA playoffs when 16 teams make the playoffs and pretty much every single season teams with losing records make the playoffs. I think that statement alone is validation of what a dumb fuck you are.

    ReplyCancel
    • Gabe
      12 years ago

      I said Rubio made the playoffs his last two seasons in Euroleague, when he was over 19. Right now Bobby Brown’s team is 2-0 in the top so it is looking good for the playoffs. Brown has led his team to that 2-0 record so his ball hogging seems to be working.

      ReplyCancel
  29. mike
    12 years ago

    Okay @Gabe it’s your turn. He just called you an Albanian dumb%^$&. Talk about racism.

    I guess he has given up on the top domestic leagues argument..See @redikas what we are dealing with.

    ReplyCancel
  30. Erik
    12 years ago

    More of Gabe’s and mike’s lies are being exposed every day. These two racist assholes have been claiming here for a very long time that,

    1. “Bourousis could never play in the NBA because his team did not make the Top 16 of Euroleague.”

    and

    2. “No player that cannot make the Top 16 of Euroleague would ever get an NBA contract and no NBA team would ever even consider signing them.”

    and

    3. “Anyone that says otherwise is a liar, a nutcase, a freak, a Euro homer, a troll, and crazy.”

    And then, Aron Baynes, a CENTER, the SAME position Bourousis plays, who finished SECOND to Bourousis in player rating —>

    http://www.euroleague.net/main/statistics?mode=Leaders&entity=Players&seasonmode=Single&seasoncode=E2012&phasetypecode=RS%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20&cat=Valuation&agg=PerGame

    and whose team FAILED TO MAKE THE TOP 16, with a 2-8 record, WORSE than the record of Bourousis’ team………………………………………………

    This SAME center, that finished behind Bourousis in player rating, and failed to make the Top 16, and whose team had a worse record than Bourousis’ team did, just signed a four year contract with the San Antonio Spurs.

    BOOM BITCHES!

    You motherfucking LYING RACIST SONS OF BITCHES ARE CAUGHT LYING ONCE AGAIN!

    BOOM YOU RACIST BITCHES!

    BOOM!

    PS – United league and Adriatic league are considered domestic leagues you stupid jackasses.

    ReplyCancel
    • Gabe
      12 years ago

      Here you are again twisting my words. I never said Bourousis would never make the NBA I just said he would make a good third string center, exactly what Aron Baynes is going to be on the Spurs. Bourousis would make a solid 4th or 5th big man for an NBA team.

      ReplyCancel
    • Gabe
      12 years ago

      And again wrong! Union Olimpija was 3-7, the same record as Milano. A difference is that Baynes led Euroleague is rebounding while Bourousis was 5th, on teams with the same records. Maybe that’s why Baynes was offered an NBA contract and gimpy old unathletic Bourousis was not.

      ReplyCancel
  31. Popovich owned mike and Gabe
    12 years ago

    lmfao at Gabe. You got owned son. You talked endless shit here for weeks about how no NBA team would ever in a million years sign a Euroleague player that did not make the Top 16, then right off the bat the Spurs sign one.

    And Bourousis was SECOND IN REBOUNDING you fucking lying dick.

    http://www.euroleague.net/main/statistics?mode=Leaders&entity=Players&seasonmode=Single&seasoncode=E2012&phasetypecode=RS%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20&cat=TotalRebounds&agg=PerGame

    From now on every time you lie, it’s getting exposed here. No more free passes for you and your psycho fantasies.

    hahahahahahahahahaha

    Baynes was offered an NBA contract because he only made 200,000 euros net a year and only had a $350,000 buyout.

    Bourousis makes 1.5 million euros net a year and has 1.5 million euros buyout. Yeah, you know, because he’s considered to be a way better player than Baynes.

    The spurs could NOT afford him. But it’s not like you ever once in your life ever spoke the truth. Just keep on LYING because that is the only thing you know how to do, Mr. Pathological Liar.

    ReplyCancel
  32. mike
    12 years ago

    7.5ppg and 5.4rpg. what a beast!! Best center in the world!1 Hahahahaha

    ReplyCancel
    • Zoran
      12 years ago

      Pekovic had similar numbers in Euroleague and already he is best center in NBA. And Bourousis was better in Greek league than Pekovic was.

      ReplyCancel
      • Gabe
        12 years ago

        Buzzzz!! Wrong. Lies and lies and lies again.

        Here are Pekovic’s Euroleague stats:
        http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=knn

        He averaged 11,7 ppg, 4 more ppg than Bourousis and his last 4 years Pekovic averaged 16.4, 13, 14.8 and 15.4 ppg while Bourousis’ best year he only averaged 12.5 ppg and that was three years ago, this year he only averaged 9 ppg while Pekovic, his last year in Euroleague averaged 15.4 ppg.

        And Pekovic the best center in the NBA? lol He’s 42nd in scoring and 22nd in rebounding on a .500 that right now is out of the playoffs yet he is the best center in the NBA. He is not even in the conversation for an all-star birth so anyone that suggests he could even be considered for all-NBA third team (meaning the third best center in the NBA) would be laughed out of the room.

        ReplyCancel
  33. mike
    12 years ago

    This Borou comparisons are stupid and ignorant. No way is Borou an elite center. I disagree with you a bit on Pekovic, Gabe. He is under rated, and has to be in the conversation among the league’s best centers. Howard has not had a good year despite his usual monster numbers. but in the West, who else is ahead of Pekovic? Not many.

    Pekovic stock is rising, no doubt.

    ReplyCancel
    • vomit gabe troll
      12 years ago

      Only Panathinaikos and Olympiacos fans call him “Bourou”.

      mike is a Greek Olympiacos hater pretending to be “American”. Just like his queer boyfriend gabe.

      These are truly sick and demented individuals.

      ReplyCancel
  34. vomit gabe troll
    12 years ago

    Bourousis career numbers in Euroleague is 8 and 6 not 7 and 5.

    mike and Gabe you can both fucking FUCK OFF AND BURN IN HELL.

    you are fucking SCUM!

    ReplyCancel
    • Gabe
      12 years ago

      In fact they are 7.8 and 5.5.

      http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=AQU

      ReplyCancel
      • FIBA
        12 years ago

        The level of your idiocy is truly astonishing. I have never once seen you get a single thing right here. Not even one time. Not even are you mentally capable of properly reading stats printed on a page.

        No, those are not the stats you incredibly stupid little man.

        Notice those are the stats only through LAST YEAR. They don’t include THIS YEAR’S STATS you unbelievably dumb loser.

        Your level of stupidity is truly frightening.

        His career averages are 8.2 points and 5.6 rebounds

        That you could actually read this,

        CAREER STATS
        Euroleague
        Season Team G Pts Avg 2FG
        M-A
        % 3FG
        M-A
        % FT
        M-A
        % Reb St As Bl
        2002-03 AEK Athens 3 8 2.7 3/6 50 0/1 0 2/2 100 6 0 0 0
        2003-04 AEK Athens 12 21 1.8 9/18 50 0/0 0 3/7 42.9 26 4 3 4
        2004-05 AEK Athens 18 61 3.4 25/45 55.6 1/6 16.7 8/16 50 66 7 6 7
        2005-06 AEK Athens 11 93 8.5 28/61 45.9 4/12 33.3 25/30 83.3 79 5 3 5
        2006-07 Olympiacos 19 163 8.6 52/68 76.5 9/22 40.9 32/44 72.7 109 20 15 13
        2007-08 Olympiacos 21 122 5.8 27/49 55.1 16/37 43.2 20/26 76.9 110 10 11 26
        2008-09 Olympiacos 22 275 12.5 97/149 65.1 7/27 25.9 60/96 62.5 162 16 16 11
        2009-10 Olympiacos 17 149 8.8 43/79 54.4 8/17 47.1 39/51 76.5 81 16 12 10
        2010-11 Olympiacos 18 193 10.7 60/104 57.7 11/30 36.7 40/59 67.8 118 10 13 24
        2011-12 EA7 Emporio Armani 15 135 9 52/101 51.5 3/17 17.6 22/32 68.8 96 11 8 11
        TOTALS 156 1220 7.8 396/680 58.2 59/169 34.9 251/363 69.1 853 99 87 111
        AVERAGES 156 1220 7.8 396/680 58.2 59/169 34.9 251/363 69.1 5.5 0.6 0.6 0.7

        And not have the mental capacity to grasp that does not include the 2012-13 season is truly remarkable and really does prove what an incredibly moron you are. You are a moron of colossal proportions.

        ReplyCancel
  35. mike
    12 years ago

    Me Greek? Only thing Greek about me is that I love baklava and gyros. LOL…. I’m too lazy to call Borou his whole name since he doesn’t really deserve it with those pedestrian numbers. hehe

    ReplyCancel
  36. FIBA
    12 years ago

    You are an Albanian-Turkish American that trolls on Greek forums and English ones only to bash Olympiacos players.

    ReplyCancel
  37. Andrea
    12 years ago

    I’m perfectly fine with those changes. Let’s face it, people, the NBA is by FAR and away the BEST league in the world with the top players and most basketball fans, here in Europe as well, prefer watching it so it doesn’t really surprise me that the powers that be in international ball want to get closer and closer to the NBA model in order to increase the following of european ball. It’s not rocket science, really. Non-NBA fans may be upset over this since they love their precious euro ball, but it is what it is. Don’t like it? Go watch another sport. After all, there’s so much choice out there.

    ReplyCancel

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