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First half report cards for European players in NBA

February 28, 2012

At the halfway point of the crazy fast 2011-12 NBA season, BallinEurope flexes the university professor muscles a little bit this morning with midterm assessments of individual performance by the big league’s Continental Players. We’ll be using the European grading system, with 5 being the top score possible and 1 the lowest; the Americans may consider the numbers roughly equivalent to the A-F system of U.S. high schools.

Listed along with the player’s name and team are a few metrics employed in handing out the marks, chief among these current Player Efficiency Ratings as devised by ESPN’s John Hollinger.

Now, class. Ready for the second half…?

5. Head of the class
Andrea Bargnani, Toronto Raptors (22.1 PER, 23.5 ppg, 6.4 rpg)

Marc Gasol, Memphis Grizzlies (19.23 PER, 15.0 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 2.2 bpg, 1.0 spg, 38.1 mpg)

Tony Parker, San Antonio Spurs (22.32 PER, 19.4 ppg, 8.1 apg, 1.1 spg)

Nikola Pekovic, Minnesota Timberwolves (22.38 PER, 12.5 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 0.8 bpg, 0.7 spg, 24.4 mpg; in February, 17.2 ppg, 10.4 rpg, 1.2 bpg, 0.8 spg, 32.2 mpg)

After all-star Marc Gasol, call this the 20/20 club: Gasol, Parker and Pekovic are the sole European players in the NBA with PERs over 20 and ranked among the top 20 in the category. Though Gasol doesn’t gain entry – he’s ranked just 50th in PER overall – clearly his team’s success in anchored by the Spainard, who’s contributing the fifth-most minutes in the NBA.

And while the awarding of a 5 to Pekovic may be a bit premature, BiE feels the Serb’s monster February plus the creation of a nice twin-tower tandem with Kevin Love justifies the mark. Plus, do you realize that he is tops among Europeans in PER? At no. 17 overall, Pekovic tops Jeremy Lin, Parker and Bargnani.

4. High-level performers
Nicolas Batum, Portland Trail Blazers (19.67 PER, 13.9 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 1.1 bpg, 1.0 spg)

José Calderón, Toronto Raptors (17.95 PER, 11.0 ppg, 8.9 apg) earning that $9.7 million

Luol Deng, Chicago Bulls (15.84 PER, 15.9 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 0.75 bpg, 1.1 spg, 38.3 mpg)

Danilo Gallinari, Denver Nuggets (19.99 PER, 17.0 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 1.2 spg, 33.0 mpg)

Pau Gasol, Los Angeles Lakers (21.11 PER, 17.0 ppg, 10.6 rpg, 1.2 bpg, 37.1 mpg)

Marcin Gortat, Phoenix Suns (21.37 PER, 15.9 ppg, 10.4 rpg, 1.6 bpg, 33. 6 mpg)

Serge Ibaka, Oklahoma City Thunder (17.36 PER, 8.2 ppg, 17.7 rpg, 3.2 bpg)

Ersan Ilyasova, Milwaukee Bucks (18.48 PER, 10.4 ppg, 8.6 rpg; one monster 29-point, 25-rebound performance)

Joakim Noah, Chicago Bulls (18.86 PER, 9.5 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 3.7 orpg, 1.3 bpg)

Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas Mavericks (21.09 PER, 19.6 ppg, 6.8 rpg)

Ricky Rubio, Minnesota Timberwolves (15.74 PER, 11.3 ppg, 8.4 apg, 2.4 spg, 3.4 TOpg)

Nice to see these particular players having notable seasons, particularly Gallinari (the toughest name to remove from the 5s, but BiE’s working with a grade curve here) and the graduates of Liga Endesa: Gasol, Ibaka, Rubio and Calderón.

A few 3-plusses got a bit of bump due to good marks on intangibles (Deng, Noah), top specialist play (Ibaka) and status as teacher’s pet (Rubio), while the biggest enigmas in this group are perhaps Europe’s top two names in the game, namely Dirk and Pau. While both are producing numbers which would induce envy in nearly every NBA franchise, the truth is both are suffering career lows in nearly every statistical category. Could these veterans have in fact played too much this summer, as Nowitzki contended?

3. Valued contributors
Rodrigue Beaubois, Dallas Mavericks (17.01, 7.3 ppg, 0.9 bpg, 1.0 spg, 18.0 mpg)

Rudy Fernandez, Denver Nuggets (13.97 PER, 9.3 ppg, 2.4 apg)

Enes Kanter, Utah Jazz (15.99 PER, 5.0 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 2.1 orpg, 14.5 mpg)

Goran Dragic, Houston Rockets (14.44 PER, 7.5 ppg, 3.4 apg, 0.9 spg, 19.5 mpg)

Jonas Jerebko, Detroit Pistons (15.46 PER, 9.5 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 0.7 spg, 24.6 mpg)

Linas Kleiza, Toronto Raptors (15.43 PER, 10.7 ppg, 4.6 rpg)

Zaza Pachulia, Atlanta Hawks (13.9 PER, 6.8 ppg, 6.4 rpg)

Nikola Vucevic, Philadelphia 76ers (18.41 PER, 6.6 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 0.8 bpg)

What caught BiE’s eye most about this bunch? Rookies Kanter and Vucevic’s numbers and, simultaneously, their relatively limited playing time. Purely subjectively speaking, Vucevic has been particularly impressive for the surprisingly impressive Philadelphia 76ers; if he were getting more playing time, there might be mutters about the former USC Trojan vis-a-vis Rookie of the Year honors.

2. Off-seasons, decliners, up-and-comers
Omer Asik, Chicago Bulls (12.85 PER, 5.4 rpg, 0.94 bpg)

Marco Belinelli, New Orleans Hornets (10.91 PER, 10.8 ppg, 0.9 spg, 30.0 mpg)

Andris Biedrins, Golden State Warriors (10.6 PER, 4.5 rpg, 1.1 bpg)

Omri Casspi, Cleveland Cavaliers (10.89 PER, 7.6 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 22.8 mpg)

Boris Diaw, Charlotte Bobcats (11.37 PER, 7.8 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 2.4 TOpg, 28.3 mpg)

Timofey Mozgov, Denver Nuggets (11.65 PER, 5.5 rpg, 1.15 bpg, 17.5 mpg)

Johan Petro, New Jersey Nets (10.29 PER, 4.2 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 0.9 TOpg, 14.4 mpg)

Mickael Pietrus, Boston Celtics (8.97 PER, 7.1 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 22.9 mpg)

Vladimir Radmanovic, Atlanta Hawks 11.77 PER, 4.7 ppg, 3.0 rpg)

Thabo Sefolosha, Oklahoma City Thunder (11.57 PER, 5.2 ppg, 0.9 spg, 18 games played)

Kevin Seraphin, Washington Wizards (12.11 PER, 3.7 rpg, 1.1 bpg, 13.2 mpg)

Hedo Turkoglu, Orlando Magic (12.00 PER, 11.5 ppg, 4.5 apg, 3.7 rpg, 2.9 TOpg, 30.9 mpg) (Brandon Knight 11.91 in 31.8 mpg)

Beno Udrih, Milwaukee Bucks (11.64 PER, 5.2 ppg, 2.9 apg, 16.5 mpg)

Jan Vesely, Washington Wizards (7.56 PER, 3.1 rpg, 1.0 TOpg, 15.5 mpg)

Of course, BiE likes to think that most of these guys are victims of circumstance, e.g. one can hardly fault Casspi for getting traded to an utterly stylistically inappropriate (and chaotic) situation in Cleveland – is his agent demanding a trade to Maccabi Tel Aviv yet? The Wizards’ handling of their roster has been confusing at best, much to the detriment of Seraphin and Vesely this season.

(Accentuating the positive is Pietrus, the reverse side of the coin: After twice being cut before the season began, the Frenchman landed with the Celtics to become a useful bench player on his best behavior.)

On the other hand, there are some downturns and disappointments here. Asik has been buried behind rebound specialists on the Bulls’ roster, while Radmanovic, Diaw and Turkoglu (yes, especially Turkoglu) are sending blaring signals that their NBA careers’ ending is nigh. And poor Timofey Mozgov, who will become most known in 2011-12 for his incarnation as a passive verb, as in “He got Mozgov’d.”

1. Fail
Darko Milicic, Minnesota Timberwolves (9.65 PER, 4.9 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 1.0 bpg, 16.3 mpg, 36 minutes played in last 16 games)

Mehmet Okur, New Jersey Nets (8.77 PER, 7.6 ppg, 2.6 fpg, 1.5 TOpg, 17 games played)

Ronny Turiaf, Washington Wizards (four games played)

The only real surprise here is of course Okur, whose career appears to have been at least seriously temporarily derailed by landing in New Jersey. Consider that 8.77 PER, which puts him just ahead of consensus league-worst starting PG Derek Fisher, and consider the performance of essentially his replacement, Kanter. In short, better luck next semester – um, half – Mr. Okur!

Feb 28, 2012ballineurope
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This post was published on February 28, 2012
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Comments: 27
  1. Gabe
    11 years ago

    Wow! It seems that Ballin Europe has the same bias against Pau that the NBA coaches did when voting for all-stars, but at least they had the excuse that they didn’t want three Lakers in the game. Pau is hands down the best European basketball player in the NBA this season. He is averaging more points and rebounds than his brother and Pekovic, and is a starter on a better team than both of them. Gortat should be on the “top of the class” list as well considering he is having a better season than any other European minus the Gasol brothers!

    Bargnani should not be part of “head of the class”, he has only played 13 games! and neither should Pekovik, are we judging one month or the whole season? So in closing way underrating of Pau and Gortat and way overrating of Bargnani and Pekovic (Pekovic who wasn’t even invited to the rising star challege which was a major snub but I still wouldn’t put him in the top 10 European NBA players)

    ReplyCancel
  2. Apollo
    11 years ago

    Pekovic is MONTENEGRIN, not Serbian.

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  3. Apollo
    11 years ago

    Gabe is still a troll. Last year he was saying Pekovic was a bench scrub that could not even make it in the NBA and he laughed and laughed and made fun of him all year because he was “All Euroleague Team”.

    It was real funny to him it seemed how he went on and on with his usual BS. Gabe, shut up about Pekovic. You sound like a complete ignorant fool.

    Now you won’t admit he is one of the best (maybe THE best) European in the NBA because it would once again prove what a moron you are and what an EXTREME bias you have against the Euroleague.

    And news flash Gabe, the Euroleague is packed full of players that can come in and have a huge impact in the NBA. They just actually need a coach to give them playing time, something that most American coaches refuse to do, because they have a built in bias against Euroleague players.

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  4. Phileus
    11 years ago

    Apollo you were the one who said that Rubio would be a scrub in the NBA! You were the one who denied that more playing time, more freedom, and a different playing style would improve his confidence and make him a good match for the Wolves! Gabe predicted Rubio’s successful transition better than anyone else on this site. You can’t say he has an “anti-Euroleague player bias.”

    Apollo, I think you are an anti-Spain racist troll, you should be banned from this site, you troll on FIBA.com and SpursTalk, and this is your picture: http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/003/619/Untitled-1.jpg

    That said, I totally disagree with your opinion on Pekovic, Gabe. He’s exactly the player they need to play alongside Kevin Love, and he’s getting respect around the league. Though I would definitely take Bargnani out of the top tier and put Gasol in there instead.

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    • Gabe
      11 years ago

      I’m not saying that Pekovic is a scrub, I’m just saying he isn’t one of the top 10 European players in the NBA. If you look at his stats 12.5 ppg & 7.2 rpg they are not close to Pau Gasol’s or Gortat’s who both have started every game this season while Pekovic has just started half so to rate Pekovic over Pau and Gortat is just stupid.

      Apollo, since you wanted to start, how is last year’s All-Euroleague second team/player of the month in March/4th in Euroleague in assists/starting point guard and only player on the All-Euroleague team for a team which made the Euroleague finals: Jeremy Pargo doing in the NBA? 3.2 ppg and 1.6 apg

      Could you just imagine, IMAGINE a player from the ALL-NBA second team going to Euroleague and putting up such paltry numbers? He would be Euroleague MVP!

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  5. Mike
    11 years ago

    These NBA only fans make me want to vomit. Why does this site tolerate this crap here?

    Pargo does not get a fair chance to play from his stupid American coach. Because they have biases against Euroleague players. PERIOD.

    Just last year these same trolls were all over this site saying Pekovic and Splitter were awful NBA scrubs and sucked and that proved what a joke Euroleague was because they were “all Euroleague”. Now the same trolls keep up the same crap with Pargo, who like Pekovic simply does not get treated fairly by his coach.

    If Pargo suddenly starts playing then they will pretend they never made those claims and pretend they never said he was a scrub, just like how they pretend that they never bashed Pekovic here.

    And then some fool brings up Rubio…….dude Rubio IS a scrub. What the hell is with all these trolls here?

    Rubio is an awful shooter, he is maybe the most inefficient player on offense in the NBA, maybe the worst shooting guard in NBA in YEARS, he is turnover prone, his defense varies from good, to not even trying, and he can do a thing against a zone defense, or in a half court set.

    He’s Jason Williams without a jump shot.

    Damn there are some real idiots that frequent this site.

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    • Gabe
      11 years ago

      First off Rubio is a point guard.

      And saying that coaches don’t give Euroleague players a chance is just bs. There are dozens if not hundreds of basketball players trying to get minutes in the NBA who don’t get a chance to prove it, Jeremy Lin for example. Here is an interesting article about one of those players:
      http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/28/sports/basketball/the-10-day-nba-contract-a-tiny-window-closes-quickly.html

      Splitter and Pekovic were the top players in Euroleague but in the NBA they are just role players.

      But the whole point is NBA coaches are not biased against Euroleague players they pick the best players they believe will help them win to keep their jobs. Only players drafted in the NBA lottery are guaranteed playing time, everyone else has to earn it. I think what upsets Euroleague fans here is they feel that Euroleague stars should automatically get minutes in the NBA but that is not the case. NBA coaches know that Euroleague is different and the talent level so much weaker than the NBA that being an All-Euroleague player or star means nothing in the NBA. Euroleague players have to earn their minutes in pratice or play like any other player on the court. Euroleague stars like Jeremy Pargo have to earn their minutes just like any developmental league or undrafted/late drafted player.

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  6. Phileus
    11 years ago

    Mike: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7624588/nba-rookie-midterm-report-including-kyrie-irving-ricky-rubio-more

    Leave the basketball discussion to the adults, please!

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    • Gabe
      11 years ago

      Rubio is doing great as I predicted but he still is not going to get ROY. I give that to Irving unless Rubio really makes a late season push.

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  7. Phileus
    11 years ago

    Also Mike, I think you are an anti-Spain racist troll, you should be banned from this site, you troll on FIBA.com and SpursTalk, and this is your picture: http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/003/619/Untitled-1.jpg

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  8. Zorand
    11 years ago

    Gabe says: “Splitter and Pekovic were the top players in Europe”

    PUT DOWN THE CRACK PIPE

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    • Gabe
      11 years ago

      Sorry I misspoke. I shouldn’t have put “the”. Splitter and Pekovic were not THE top players in Europe but they were definitely top players in Europe.

      Splitter: All-Euroleague First Team and 2X All-Euroleague Second Team not to mention 2X Spanish league champion and Spanish League MVP and Spanish League Finals MVP (I know there are not many Spanish fans on this site but the Spanish league is arguably the top regional league in Europe with the most Euroleague teams every year)

      Pekovic: All-Euroleague First Team and All-Euroleague Second Team not to mention 2X ABA champion and ABA Final Four MVP.

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  9. John
    11 years ago

    There may be a slight bias against Euro League players amongst coaches in the NBA, but that bias disappears if confronted with quality play on the court. No NBA coach in the country would bench a player who is working hard and has the talent to contribute just because he is from the Euro League.

    There is no doubt that there are very good players in the Euro League, and we can see extremely successful examples of Europeans transitioning to playing in the NBA (Dirk, Pau, Bargnani.)

    There is no point in arguing that NBA coaches are so biased that they would purposefully sit a player talented enough to really help the team, and it is ok to admit that some players just cannot make the transition…

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  10. Erik
    11 years ago

    American coaches ave an extremely large bias against European players, in general. Some American coaches don’t. But 90% of them do.

    Just ask Rick Adelman. He admitted years after the fact that the reason he did not play Drazen Petrovic was because he was a European and he had been taught that Europeans can’t play basketball.

    He later would admit it was a huge mistake and regret of his and that he learned from it. So that then on, he would treat European players equally as he treated American players. It is no coincidence that Adelman is considered the NBA coach that gets the most out of foreign players. This is why.

    And just to further this point, it has been reported numerous times in New York media that Jeff Van Gundy would just absolutely refuse to play any European players and that the Knicks often though to fire him over it.

    There have been numerous reports in the media that he PURPOSELY sabotaged the NBA careers of Frederic Weis, Mirsad Turkcan and Vassilis Spanoulis – simply because he hated European players.

    Even front office people from the Knicks have said that he would berate these European players until they quit and left the team.

    So it is absolutely delusional for people to think that American coaches are all simply playing players based on how good they are, regardless of where they come from. That is NOT true.

    It’s not even true for American players. Plenty of white American players have claimed that they were not given fair chances as well.

    But of course you have morons like Gabe that claim that players simply play based on how good they are. People like him are so typical. Useful idiots.

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  11. Gabe
    11 years ago

    I live in New York and am a Knick fan and has never heard anything about Van Gundy hating European players. Weiss never even came over to the Knicks so you can’t blame Van Gundy for that.

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  12. John
    11 years ago

    Eric, if your going to back up what your saying with “reports in the media,” it is very necessary to cite these sources.

    “So it is absolutely delusional for people to think that American coaches are all simply playing players based on how good they are, regardless of where they come from. That is NOT true.”

    The one and only goal of a NBA coach is to win, and they will play any player that helps them do that. If they discriminate against a player that will help them win, they will lose, and losing too much causes a coach to lose their job. If they do not play a player, it is because they do not believe that player will help them win. That is how it works.

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  13. Phileus
    11 years ago

    Erik is so, so right. White non-Euro players like Kevin Love, Steve Nash, Steve Novak, Ryan Anderson, Spencer Hawes, Kris Humphries, Manu Ginobili, Luis Scola, etc. etc. all are treated so unfairly in the NBA. If only their coaches let them play, they would shine, but because their anti-white coaches (even the white ones) hate all white people, they sit at the end of the bench and in the D-League. Erik, you have touched upon the very important point of racism against whites in the NBA, perpetrated by the anti-white David Stern and his evil cabal of all anti-white team owners.

    -_-

    Anyway, it’s well-known that the reason Frederic Weiss didn’t go to the NBA because he was tea-bagged in mid-air. I don’t blame him. And you forget that when Spanoulis fled from the NBA, he was on the Spurs (definitely one of the most anti-Euro organizations in NBA history), who gave up one of their favorite prospects (Scola) for him – a move they later came to regret because Spanoulis ran back to Greece before he joined their team.

    To be fair, though, not many players actually liked playing for JVG.

    Also, JVG’s anti-non-black bias was obvious when he refused to play Yao Ming. JVG realized that Yao was the best player on his team, so he forced him to get injured because he couldn’t stand seeing a non-black player succeed.

    -_-

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  14. Celaya
    11 years ago

    This site is full of the NBA only fans. What a bunch of lies here. Weis was kicked out of New York training camp by van Gundy because he made him cry because he humiliated him in practice. In New York media one of the team’s managers even said that van Gundy was really out of line and did it in purpose because he did not want a European center.

    They also said numerous times that van Gundy made fun of Turkcan’s accent and how he talked and made disparaging imitations of him.

    “You three, me fired.”

    Gabe is definitely a liar. Because if he is from New York he would know this. These were huge stories. van Gundy would still even joke and laugh about it from time to time now. Not too long ago he said something in a game like, “Okur is my 2nd best Turkish player ever on my list, after Mirsad Turkcan”. Then he repeated his, “You three me fired”. He still gets off on it.

    And in Houston media it was reported that van Gundy said Spanoulis would not play simply because he made the decision he would refuse to play a rookie during his coaching contract year.

    Jeff van Gundy is a jerk and he definitely ruined the careers of those players. Turkcan and Spanoulis were [Turkcan], and are [Spanoulis], much better than most NBA players and that fool destroyed their time in the NBA.

    Anybody denying that is a complete dumb ass.and has no business posting on this European site. There is being a hater, and then there is being ridiculously full of hate, which is what the people here are saying. It’s absolutely absurd that you morons would defend how van Gundy treated European players, when he is infamous around the NBA for it.

    Gabe is definitely not from New York, because this is common knowledge to all Knicks fans. Gabe is totally making up things here, just because he is here to promote the NBA and bash European basketball. I am from New York, I am a Knicks fan, and this is well known to be true. There is no way in hell that Gabe is from New York, because if he was, he would definitely know about this. The guy is a clear cut poser.

    Gabe obviously gets paid to type anti European basketball trash here. He and his buddies are either aliases, or other fools that are getting paid by the NBA to type BS NBA gimmick marketing.

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    • Gabe
      11 years ago

      Oh you’re a Knicks fan. That’s funny I never heard any of his anti-European bias. I only heard that while on the Rockets he joked that playing rookies are not good for coaches in their contract year. What part of New York are you from “Celaya”?

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  15. Phileus
    11 years ago

    trolololo

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  16. Goran
    11 years ago

    Google search says Gabe was lying again. No surprise in this as he is proven 100% LIAR.

    —————————————————————————————————-

    Marcus Camby – he refused to play him simply to spite his boss and get him fired.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/item_gD5A2O3LZ9ucUd7PLkztuM;jsessionid=07B9D23AE5DE224C4F9E7A2F6AE18D39

    It’s also important to remember Jeff was flexing muscle at the time. He was fresh from undermining Ernie Grunfeld out of his president/GM job and reaching the Finals on the lengthy defensive forte of Marcus Camby (and Latrell Sprewell), whom he refused to play early and often to spite his later deposed boss (and himself) to avenge trading Charles Oakley.

    Fabricio Oberto – ran him out of training camp and the NBA simply because he didn’t want any foreign players and his GM went against his wishes

    http://articles.latimes.com/2005/sep/25/sports/sp-spursdog25

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=14886

    Oberto first tried to make it to the NBA with the Knicks during the summer of 1999, spending much of his 10 days in New York on the receiving end of rants from then-coach Jeff Van Gundy. Oberto was stunned when the Knicks told him they wouldn’t be bringing him to Boston with their summer-league team, and he looks back on it as the worst days of his professional career.

    “I realized then, I think I was set up,” said Oberto, whose Knicks tryout kept him from playing on Argentina’s national team in the 1999 Olympic qualifier. “They didn’t tell me until the last day, and I felt really bad about that. They didn’t tell me I needed to play a couple more years. If they had said that, I could have accepted their point.”

    Dejected, he signed with Tau Ceramica in Spain.

    Frédéric Weis – made him leave Knicks camp in tears and heart broken because the native French speaker could not understand NBA jargon in English

    http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/item_gD5A2O3LZ9ucUd7PLkztuM;jsessionid=07B9D23AE5DE224C4F9E7A2F6AE18D39

    OK, so here are the Knicks preparing for the summer league and Weis shows up. Though unsigned, he’d agreed to work out, but it was implicit he could play but a couple games on account of French national team obligations.

    “Those first workouts were indicative of what was in store for Fred,” said a forward observer. “He had little English skills, especially when you hear most Americans speak ‘English.’ He was capable of speaking and understanding, but it was at best, faulty.

    “Jeff began drills by propping Frederic first in line, explaining how the drill has to be done, using NY slang and NBA basketball jargon,” the source continues.

    “Fred is instantly lost, comprehending maybe half of what’s being said. The drills go very badly. Jeff loses patience after two minutes and starts hurling insults, his usual freakin’ sissy routine. From then on it was expletive this and expletive that as Weis got lost in every aspect of what Jeff was trying to implement tactically.”

    That abuse carried over to the summer league, where Weis played lost and Jeff handled him like he had leprosy. The final straw was when Weis offered to play the first half of the third game; he had a flight to catch (to France) and the time factor only allowed him to play that much, shower and get to the airport.

    “Jeff sent him off with a tongue-lashing and a ‘no need to play’ the first half because ‘the Knicks don’t need you,’ ” recounted the source.

    Back in the hotel, while packing his bags, Weis, teary-eyed, swore he’d never have anything to do with the Knicks and Jeff after such mistreatment.

    “He’s a good kid and could’ve been an asset,” the source concluded. “Instead, Jeff took the ‘French Toast’ New York Post full-page shot at him. I was ashamed I didn’t say something to that arrogant little [bleep]. Everybody who was there should be ashamed.”

    Mirsad Türkcan – this quote from Jeff to the Euroleague’s all-time leading rebounder says it all

    http://www.nytimes.com/1999/10/07/sports/on-pro-basketball-why-stars-require-kid-glove-treatment.html

    “I was talking to Mirsad Turkcan,” Van Gundy, the Knicks’ coach, said.

    “He said to me, ‘You got no 3.’

    “I said, ‘What?’

    “He said, ‘You got no 3.’ ” (Referring to the Knicks’ having no legitimate starting small forward.)

    “What about Larry Johnson?” Van Gundy asked Turkcan.

    “He 4,” Turkcan replied in halting English.

    “What about Latrell Sprewell?” Van Gundy asked.

    “He 2.”

    Turkcan then pointed to himself and announced, “Me 3.”

    Van Gundy said, “You 3, me fired.”

    Vassilis Spanoulis – This is the best one yet, by far. Promised him playing time to get him to sign a smaller contract and then benched him permanently saying that no such promise was ever made. Made fun of him in a Houston paper over claiming he was “The T-Mac of Greece”, a comment which Spanoulis never even made.

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/wizardsinsider/2008/08/spanoulis_isnt_eager_to_make_n.html

    Spanoulis’s primary gripe was that he opted out of the final two years of his contract with Panathinaikos, turning down more money – more than $1 million annually in salary – to leave his hometown fans and pursue his dream to play in the NBA.

    “Billy on a mobile” a mocking impersonation of the Greek speaker, made by IMPERSONATING HIM – PRETENDING that he said, “Back home I was T-Mac” (a FAKE IMPERSONATION)……….

    http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=123767

    Now Van Gundy…………….

    http://www.chron.com/sports/rockets/article/Rockets-Spanoulis-wants-more-minutes-1536296.php

    Van Gundy nods his head.

    “(Spanoulis) says, ‘I was McGrady back home.’ Great. McGrady is McGrady here,” Van Gundy said.

    “I feel badly for him. He feels he was misled.”

    His BS is exposed by himself stating he is a talented player, while also stating he had a good work ethic and mental makeup, which he later denied:

    http://www.nba.com/rockets/news/Notes_Van_Gundy_high_on_Spano-191124-34.html

    Van Gundy said Spanoulis has the sort of work ethic and energy level that will keep him in the NBA for a long time, even if his rookie season turns out to be more of a learning experience.

    Van Gundy said, “I just believe this guy has the right mental makeup to be a good NBA player.”

    The Rockets GM on the issue:

    http://archive.ekathimerini.com/4Dcgi/4Dcgi/_w_articles_sport_12_24/01/2007_79281

    “We like the player we signed,” Rockets’ General Manager Caroll Dawson was quoted as telling the Houston Chronicle.

    “We want this kid here.”

    Yao Ming’s opinion:

    http://www.chron.com/sports/rockets/article/ROCKETS-NOTES-Spanoulis-draws-Nash-comparrison-1912811.php

    ROCKETS NOTES: Spanoulis draws Nash comparison

    By FRAN BLINEBURY AND JONATHAN FEIGEN
    Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle

    Are the Rockets ready for Steve Nasharopoulos of Athens?

    As you would expect, progress is coming in small steps for Vassilis Spanoulis. The star of the Greek national team had 10 points, eight assists and four turnovers in 22 minutes against Milwaukee.

    “Every day for me is a new lesson,” Spanoulis said. “I learn new things every day about the NBA, because it’s totally different than playing in Europe. Every day I’m learning my teammates a little better, and that makes things better for me.”

    Spanoulis’ tallest teammate is quite impressed.

    “He is great,” said Yao Ming. “He can see the court. He always makes the right decision. He makes passes to the right people, and passes are right on target.

    “Give him time, and I think he will maybe be like Steve Nash one day.”

    A Houston sports writer’s opinion:

    http://blog.chron.com/ultimaterockets/2007/01/career-advice-for-billy-and-a-heros-tribute-for-dikembe/

    For all his frustration — perhaps you’ve heard — I have been struck in recent weeks at how cordial Billy Spanoulis has been.

    “Every day, he comes in, offers a big smile, asks how I’m doing. It’s just small talk, common courtesy. But you know how it is when you see someone every day. Pretty soon you nod, maybe grunt. It all becomes perfunctory. Professional athletes learn that to say hello is to invite inquiries.

    This guy is endlessly courteous.”

    ————————————————————————————————-

    Once again Gabe is liar. Celaya was truth teller and Gabe is LIAR. Like ALWAYS in this site.

    ReplyCancel
    • Gabe
      11 years ago

      Ummm, how are my a liar? That I’m from New York or that I’m a Knicks fan? It’s true that I didn’t know about the Weiss story but most Knick fans didn’t. About Turkan all I knew was he was the 12th guy on the Knicks’ bench like 10 years ago. 90% of Knick fans wouldn’t even know who Turkan is. To say it’s common knowledge to Knick fans that Van Gundy hated European players and to say otherwise is full of hate is just silly. Most Knick fans just know Van Gundy as the coach that got the Knicks to the finals.

      As for Spanoulis again it seemed he came over expecting be a star and would not earn his minutes like most other European players did.

      ReplyCancel
      • Gabe
        11 years ago

        Okay, I think it’s obvious that some of these people are sock puppets, someone posting under different names. That being said “Goran’s” post with the links was very informative and I learned somethings I didn’t know, especially about Weiss. Still for “Celeya” to post that I’m not a Knicks fan and I don’t live in New York, or I’m filled with hate is just absurd. I mean what is a “fan”, I’m sure many people who consider themselves Knicks fans can’t name five Knicks players. And we’re talking about obscure facts about the team 10 years ago. I would guess 90% of Knicks fans don’t know about Van Gundy’s bias.
        So yes this person who is posting all these things has taught me something I didn’t know, Van Gundy was an ass and seemed to have something against European players but this person is also a little nuts: claming to be from New York when they obviously aren’t, posting under different aliases and calling me a liar and especially, my favorite absurd comment,: that I get paid to post on this site. I wish I would be a rich man by now!!

        ReplyCancel
  17. Phileus
    11 years ago

    Nice job! You obviously spent a lot of time in this thread, and your research deserves praise.
    —

    Anyway, so you’re saying that the only reason Euroleague players fail in the NBA is because of racist coaches who don’t play them.

    As your proof, you showed that one coach – no longer an NBA coach, even – was a jerk to European players (though as I said above, nobody really liked JVG anyway).

    So what about Popovich? What about Adelman? Scott Brooks? Rick Carlisle? Avery Johnson? In terms of retired coaches, what about Hubie Brown (who loved Pau Gasol and treated him as a superstar)? Jerry Sloan? Phil Jackson? Don Nelson? Mike Dunleavy?

    Trying to blame every European player’s lack of success in the NBA on racism from the coaches is a lazy and irresponsible position to take.

    Also, why are you always so angry in all of your posts? I’ll give you a prize if you are able to write a single post without insulting someone.

    ReplyCancel
  18. Michael
    11 years ago

    DAMN son. Goran just owned the hell out of this thread

    ReplyCancel
  19. Xaris Froso
    11 years ago

    hey where the fuck is Costas Koufos? he has played very well this year

    ReplyCancel
  20. Mike
    11 years ago

    Andrea Bargnani “head of the class” is certainly open to debate. Sure he put up excellent numbers when he played. Here it is the middle of March and the guy has played exactly 13 games this season.

    When you pay someone $10 million a season, you expect them to show up for work everyday and not call in sick for most of the season.

    The Raptors built their offense for this season around Bargnani and DeRozan. At least DeRozan has decided to show up for work.

    ReplyCancel
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