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On Panionios BC and the future of Greek basketball

October 17, 2012

After defending Euroleague champions Olympiacos took care of business in an 85-81 win over Caja Laboral Baskonia last week, Greece-based media outlet Ekathimerini spun their game wrap under the headline “Greek stars gift Reds opening Euroleague win.”

Indeed, last year’s heroes Giorgos Printezis and Vassilis Spanoulis were instrumental in the comeback victory, providing 33 points combined as the team’s high scorers. And Olympiacos management seems light-years removed from their former fascination with overpaying the Josh Childresses of the basketball world by investing in homegrown talent Dimitrios Mavroeidis and Stratos Perperoglou while otherwise standing pat with much of the 2010-11 final roster.

Beyond Charis Giannopoulos and Vassilis Xanthopoulos, The Reds’ counterparts in Panathinaikos looked mostly outside Greece in the free-agent period, bringing aboard five or six non-Greek talents, depending on how one feels about the status of Sofoklis Schortsanitis.

Given a pair of underwhelming results by the national team the past two summers – a 2-3 run to close out Eurobasket 2011 in sixth place and a loss to Nigeria which resulted in elimination from Olympic qualifiers – one has to wonder about the present state of youth development in Greece.

After all, aside from Printezis, Olympiacos may boast exactly zero players on the current roster as having come up through the Reds’ system. Though the active roster includes four quality Greek products of 22 years old or younger (Kostas Sloukas, Kostas Papanikolaous, Evangelos Matnzaris and Dimitrios Katsivelis), the fact that the Reds have drawn talent from squads like Aris, Peristeri, Mantoulidis and Asteras feels eerily similar to the feeder system the Lithuanian powerhouses enjoy in the LKL – at the result of domestic league parity.

Things may be considered even less Greece-friendly in the land of the Greens. Half of Panathainkos’ extended 14-man roster is homegrown (including Big Sofo, who started with Iraklis). The sole investment PAO seems to have made in its future the past couple of seasons was a seriously long-term deal, as 15-year-old (!) Vassilis Charalampopoulos is now onboard with a six-year (!!!) contract that has “future loaner” written all over it.

On top of this, the Panathinaikos system lost two of its brightest hopes this summer, when Kyprianos “Paris” Maragkos got with George Washington University and Costis Gontikas enrolled at NYU. Maragkos in particular seemed – and perhaps still will be – a perfect fit for the Greek power, having recently shown his stuff in two recent youth tournaments for Team Greece: In the 2010 U16 FIBA Europe Championship tournament, Maragkos contributed 14.9 points (also good for fourth-high in the competition) and 6.8 rebounds per game, both marks team highs; in 2011, his line of 9.7 ppg and 4.3 rbg (including 2.0 offensive to lead the team) at the U18 continental tournament made for a bright spot within another, yes, disappointing showing from Hellas.

Before getting with George Washington, Maragkos was reportedly scouted by Virginia, Old Dominion and Virginia Tech as well – somebody sees *something* in this big guy…

Finally, there’s Linos Chrysikopoulos, who played for four consecutive Greek youth teams from 2008 to 2011 while signed with Aris BSA professionally. Perhaps disgruntled with his DNPs in each of the last three U20 European championship tournament or maybe tapping into frustration with the Greek League structure, the 20-year-old eschewed advances both Olympiacos and Panathinaikos early in the summer to get with the Italian Serie A’s Biella.

So is there a problem? Are Olympiacos and Panathinaikos locked in a spiral of paying higher and higher amounts to European free agents while bypassing all but (maybe) the very best from the national program? Could this low-investment, high-payout mentality become a business model?

For your consideration: Panionios BC, a Greek League team building with homegrown talent in an alternative to the Red and Green machines. For 2012-13, the Panthers grabbed some American journeymen (Christopher Booker, Landon Milbourne, Mark Payne) plus one out of university (Ashton Gibbs) and Serbian national Strahinja Dragicevic – fair enough. But it’s what’s happening elsewhere on the roster that draws BiE’s attention.

Youth basketball fans will recognize many familiar names on the Panionios player list; in descending order of age, there’s…

• Giorgos Bogris (born in 1989), part of Panathinaikos’ 2011 title-winning team, and winner of youth-tournament medals in 2007 and ’09;

• Nikos Pappas (1990), who’s played in Greece’s top division since the age of 16 and racked up numerous accolades in youth tournaments including the 2008 Albert Schweitzer (at which Pappas was named MVP), the 2008 Europe U18s (including an all-tournament nod) and the 2009 Nike Hoop Summit, among others;

• Vladimir Jankovic (1990), a naturalized Serbian native who began his career with Panionios at 17½ back in 2007 and earned five medals for Greek youth teams from 2008 to ’10; and

• Dimitrios Agravanis (1994), considered a top-25 player from among his peers and starter for the Team Greece U18s this summer, demonstrating top-ten performances in points (16.4), offensive rebounds (2.9) and defensive rebounds (4.6) plus a lot of aggression in earning the tournament’s most fouls.

Helping fill out this roster are Greece’s own Ioannis Athinaiou, Ioannis Athanasoulas, Vassilis Kawadas and Spyros Motsenigos.

Average age on the 14-man roster? Right about 24 years old! Take out Booker and old Greek League hand Marios Batis and that number drops to about 22½ – yet a 22½ experienced beyond his years.

When speaking with ol’ reliable David Hein of heinnews on the subject, his take was “I say watch Panionios over the next two three years.” Hear, hear! Just one problem: Most of these guys are only signed through 2013; Panionios will likely need immediate success to entice the developing players from moving through the ranks. Not to mention the presence of the team’s former coach, Georgios Bartzokas, now with Olympiacos.

Can Panionios prevent their Greek players from jumping ship? Can they surprise in Eurocup or Greek League ball? Will mid-budget clubs in Greece begin looking inward for talent? So many questions face this team early in 2012-13, but one thing’s for certain: Panionios’ll make for an interesting test case.

Just imagine a starting five of Gibbs, Bogris, Pappas, Jankovic and Agravanis in Euroleague 2014-15…

Oct 17, 2012ballineurope
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This post was published on October 17, 2012
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Comments: 8
  1. Niko
    10 years ago

    Since I am Greek and a Panionios fan I will comment. Those Panionios youngsters are talented. But they all seem to have something that holds them back.

    Pappas is a great scorer, great one on one player, very athletic. very good at defense…..easily one of the best European players of his generation, if not the best. But, for whatever reason, he never garners any interest from any serious clubs. The rumors are that he has a bad attitude. All this huge talent he has and he’s not moving to bigger clubs.

    Bogris has the size, all the tools, the moves, the skills to be a great big man. It’s why NBA teams have worked him out numerous times. But when you watch him play, it’s like he somehow gets lost. He can score like 4 straight baskets, then his teams won’t pass him the ball again in the game. He seems to be a guy that just wants to blend in and not stand out. Pelekanos was an enormous Greek talent that should have been starting in the NBA for 10 years, but he always just wanted to be a role player. Tapoutos is another similar example. Bogris seems the same.

    Jankovic has good size, skills, and great athletic ability for a wing player. He certainly has all the tools to be a star. But the reports are that he’s got a selfish attitude and stands out int he locker room. That’s why he didn’t get signed by Olympiacos this summer supposedly. Again, this is a bad sign for his future.

    Kavvadas is a great talent with a huge potential and possibly can be an elite Euroleague player. He’s still very young, inexperienced and very early in his development. His game is still fairly raw also. He obviously has a huge potential though. But he seems to be a guy that is plagued by only being able to play limited minutes because he is a foul machine. Maybe it is just from being a young big man, which is somewhat normal. But unless he learns not to foul so much, he won’t realize his potential. That’s what happened to Glyniadakis. He made the NBA, then his career just kept going down, because he could never stop fouling.

    There is huge potential for Greece’s national team from this group of Panionios youngsters, but also none of them is a sure thing. Pappas is certainly a sure thing in terms of his production. He’s going to be one of the most dominant scorers in European basketball for sure. He will end up in a big club eventually and probably be one of the biggest Euroleague stars of his time. But, the supposed attitude issues that have kept him from bigger clubs would also keep him from Greece’s national team. You can’t have guys with attitude in your national team, or guys that think they are above the team.

    That is a disaster, and Greece already learned that from having such huge problems in their national team caused by the prima donna behaviors of guys like Papaloukas and Diamantidis, that the national program is still trying to recover from.

    ReplyCancel
  2. Dave
    10 years ago

    @Niko great point on Pappas, Bogris and Jankovic. one must wonder why they havent been signed by others yet
    also, here is a bit on the current U18 team looking up to the 1990 generation http://u18men.fibaeurope.com/en/cid_2bqXUaQOJwYn9c2ymJyFx0.pageID_WZHOyoOmJH-NhlOBOiaQZ2.compID_8aYeHlfuGF-mF5IqO8aFH1.season_2012.roundID_8805.startAt_120.coid_6i2Ud,aSGmELVFT8E-MxS3.html

    ReplyCancel
  3. Xaris Froso
    10 years ago

    I’m sorry to burst your bubble, but Bogris is untalented and not fit physically to play at the highest level. He lacks the dexterity, jumping and speed. Now it is too late to work on those things because he is too old and no longer a young “talent”. It is entirely his own fault because he chose social life above basketball. That’s why he will remain a good second solution, but never first class.

    I agree about Pappas and Jankovic, they could become good players given the circumstances. Grats to Panionios for investing in young people, like they’ve always done!

    About the national team, the biggest problem is the lack of a creative play maker. I don’t see a young fellow anywhere who has those qualities and it worries me. As long as we don’t have a play maker, the national team is bound to fail at international competitions…

    ReplyCancel
  4. Niko
    10 years ago

    Spanoulis isn’t a creative play maker? You are joking right?

    ReplyCancel
    • Gabe
      10 years ago

      Not a good enough creative play maker to get Greece past Nigeria. What the Greeks need is another Papaloukas. If he was on the team Greece never would have lost to Nigeria in a 1000 years.

      ReplyCancel
      • BED
        10 years ago

        Spanoulis is way better than Papaloukas ever was. This coming from a Spanish supporter. No one ever feared Papaloukas one bit. You fear Spanoulis. You are as a fan scared big time any time it is a big game and you have to face him.

        As far as Greek guards go, Papaloukas isn’t even as good as Giannakis and Diamantidis. Spanoulis in contrast is like Galis. A guy that the other team’s coaches, players, and fans fear.

        You are just a crazy guy if you think Papaloukas was better than Spanoulis. I laughed just reading that.

        ReplyCancel
  5. Xaris Froso
    10 years ago

    Let me put it this way: Spanoulis is most definately NOT a creative play maker. In my book, not even Diamantidis is a purely creative play maker, despite the fact that he has like 6-7 assists per game.

    I’m talking about a play maker who doesn’t score 15 points a game but lives entirely for the team. Yes, Papaloukas was like that. Calathes could be like that in theory, but isn’t. Spanoulis should be free to play as a shooting guard and have someone capable to do the play making.

    If i was the Greek basketball federation, i would pay Papaloukas a lot of money to visit a teen club every week and teach them how to play like that.

    ReplyCancel
  6. BED
    10 years ago

    Papaloukas isn’t a pass first natural play maker either. You don’t know what that means. You want a Greek player that TRULY is that? Xanthopoulos. Not Papaloukas.

    Papaloukas play style is extremely similar to that of LeBron James. He has never in his life played as a pass first play maker.

    You make him sound like Prigioni in style of game, something that he was never near to playing like ever once in his whole career.

    I am seriously starting to wonder about how many trolls post here. Papaloukas was a really athletic guy that was great at dribbling and insane court vision and passing, and he was impossible to keep from the lane and basket.

    He also was a good post scorer. He played basically same exact way as LeBron. He was NEVER in his career a “pass first play maker” though. You are pulling that totally out of your ass.

    Pass first play makers in recent years in Euroleague was something like, Prigioni, Huertas, Rubio, Tunceri and guys like that. It sure was never Papaloukas.

    Papaloukas, Jasikevicius, Teodosic are NOT “pass first play makers”. Some fan boys of theirs just make it up because they think it sounds good and then it gets spread all over the internet and people just start repeating it. But no way in hell was it ever actually true.

    Diamantidis you say is not a pass first play maker – you are right, because he is not. But he’s more inclined to play that way than Papaloukas ever was. So I’m not sure what exactly your agenda or angle here is.

    ReplyCancel

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ballineurope
10 years ago 8 Comments EuroLeague, MoreAshton Gibbs, Biella, Charis Giannopoulos, Christopher Booker, Costis Gontikas, Dimitrios Agravanis, Dimitrios Katsivelis, Dimitrios Mavroeidis, Evangelos Matnzaris, FIBA, George Washington University, Georgios Bartzokas, Giorgos Bogris, Giorgos Printezis, Ioannis Athanasoulas, Ioannis Athinaiou, Kostas Papanikolaous, Kostas Sloukas, Landon Milbourne, Linos Chrysikopoulos, Marios Batis, Mark Payne, Nikos Pappas, NYU, Olympiacos, Panathinaikos, Panionios BC, Paris Maragkos, Sofoklis Schortsanitis, Spyros Motsenigos, Strahinja Dragicevic, Stratos Perperoglou, Team Greece, Vassilis Charalampopoulos, Vassilis Kawadas, Vassilis Spanoulis, Vassilis Xanthopoulos, Vladimir Jankovic
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