USA 86, Argentina 80: How beatable are the Yanks?

July 23, 2012

Though not actually about European basketball, last night’s USA 86, Argentina 80 pre-Olympic friendly result leads BallinEurope to put forth a few talking points from the notebook (and highlight clips, of course)…

• Perhaps slightly flawed as a whole, the truth is that Team USA still has the best three players in the world right now in Kobe Bryant, Kevin Durant and Lebron James. The opening 16-1 run was indicative of what this trio is capable. Eschewing playing any sort of serious inside game at all in the first 10 minutes, KD and Kobe teed off enough to outscore the entire Argentine side, 22-16; Lebron meanwhile controlled the D.

• ESPN’s Mark Jones and Fran Fraschilla relentlessly commented on Team USA’s “sloppy game,” yet through 25 minutes, the Red, White and Blues had given up such five TOs. Perhaps the commentators were referring to how much slower the US seemed, giving up a good four breakaways in the second half and innumerable defensive rebounds. Or perhaps certain shooters made them squirm – Deron Williams (1-of-6), Carmelo Anthony (2-of-8) … BiE’s looking at you.

• Speaking of Melo, BiE wonders about a problem here. For years, word in international media has been that Anthony is a prototype FIBA baller with good size, mobility and outstanding range for a dude put in the 4 spot for Team USA. On paper, Anthony’s still got the skills but aside from just one brief moment last night (a solid 20-footer in the second quarter), the New York Knick has yet to show.

• Was it BiE or, whoa, did Kevin Love a bit out of sorts when put in the no. 5? Within one possession of the assignment, Love had notched a quick foul in a daze; Coach K quickly pulled the Timberwolf and shifted Lebron over, a move Team USA backers have been awaiting. While Love is no center, the current plan has him getting minutes here in lieu of big bodies beyond Tyson Chandler: In this one, he got seven. Anthony and Love both cold going into London doesn’t bode very well for the defending gold medallists.

• And on to Chandler … While the first-quarter barrage was going on, Argentina gave Team USA’s starting center little attention – a desirable situation for the US, allowing Chandler to perform his glass-cleaning role on a squad of deadshots. Unfortunately for his side, Chandler’s aggression may have been dialed too high, resulting in a vaguely Rodmanesque stat line: 0 points on 0-for-0 shooting, eight rebounds, four fouls in 13 minutes played.

• Luis Scola and Manu Ginobili demonstrated some archetypical scrappiness – the former getting KD’s face, the latter registering a flagrant on Lebron – which was admirable on one hand, but over the top on the other. Okay, Luis, Manu, you can play with the Durants and Jameses, but this isn’t 2002; no statements about the fall of the Team USA empire are necessary.

• At point guard, the US’ troika of D-Will, Chris Paul and Russell Westbrook was hot and cold. Despite some pretty poster feeds from CP3 and Westbrook’s desire to charge the lane (he went 6-of-7 from the FT line), the 5-of-17 production from the PG spot cannot continue. The weak link here may be Williams. Sure, he went for a mess of buckets against Britain, but if Kobe and his ilk can suppress the shoot-first mentality for the betterment of Team USA, can’t D-Will…?

• Question: How concerned should Team USA be about this…? If Team Argentina is a measuring stick, then Spain could have reached maximum scariness for the USA with its 20-point win. Forget the big men – no, wait, don’t forget the big men; Los Rojos played without Marc Gasol, injured in a game against Australia, and still topped Argentina in boards. Meanwhile, Team Spain went for 16 threes in the game, a number the US will have to counter with its strong perimeter defense – and not the slack meter-off-the-man defense that allowed about a zillion long balls from Ginobili and Carlos Delfino in the second half – while not allowing the ball inside. Tuesday night’s match should be a true test, indeed.

• Finally, there ain’t gonna be any “Lebron Hop Step” in the Olympics. Notice how the officials whistled King James twice for travelling on a move taken for granted in the NBA? This isn’t the Sydney Games, mate. No kangaroos allowed.

Jul 23, 2012ballineurope

This post was published on July 23, 2012

Comments: 20

mike
10 years ago
Should the US be concerned? A little bit, I would say. They don’t seem to have an inside game when Argentina clamped down defensively. They could have posted Carmelo, LBJ, or Bryant, but they didn’t. Can they win just shooting threes, and defense turning to offense? That remains to be seen.
After the game, the US players commented that is was a good test, and they would rather struggle right now and then get it going when it really counts. At least that was the company line. I buy it to a degree.

USA basketball understands more and more these days that international teams never show everything they have in these friendlies anyway because when it starts to really count, it’s all suddenly one and done. Coach K knows a surprise here or there, and you’re out. Might as well not show your top offensive sets, and even defensive sets.

A good outing against Spain should cure all these speculations. Remember in 2010, the US also played in Spain for a friendly, and the US won by a couple of points. Spain went on to not medal in the Worlds, and the US BTeam basically went unchallenged through the medal stage to grab the Gold.

The bottom line though for Spain and the other aspiring teams is this: the US can be beaten if they slow the game down, and it is a half court game. You will also need decent NBA level guards to escape the defensive pressure, and get the ball to NBA level big guys
that can hurt the US inside.
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- Gabe
  10 years ago
  In fact in that friendly against Spain in 2010 the US only won by 1 point, not to mention that 2 point victory against Brazil in pool play that year. Even the ‘Redeem Team” in their last friendly in 2008 only beat Australia by 10 points (and that was Australia without Bogut) but later beat Australia in the quarter-finals by 31 (and that time Bogut started the game even though he got injured in the 1st quarter)
  
  The US will win some blowouts and win some squeakers, the important thing is they always win. And this nonsense that Spain is so scary because they beat Argentina by 20 while the US only won by 6. Spain has also played two friendlies against Australia (a much weaker team than Argentina) and both times only won by 6 points too. And at least one of those games wasn’t like the US-Argentina game where the 6 point victory was the closest the Argentinians got since like the 1st minute of the game, Australia was actually leading by 4 points in the 4th quarter. But let’s wait and see until tomorrow, should be a great game.
  
  And what was up with that call where Paul threw to the ground the back-up point guard of Argentina when he elbowed him? 4 free throws and Argentina got the ball back! I mean when Ginobli horse collared LBJ, James only got 2 free throws and the ball back. That ended by being a 6 point play for Argentina and got them back in the game. The anouncers on ESPN never explained how he got 4 free throws and the ball back! Crazy. But I know it’s FIBA play and that happens. I can’t be like Erik or whoever crying about the refs. I know they are part of the game.
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mike
10 years ago
Yeah, the Paul thing was weird. 4 free throws and possession? C’mon. FIBA really has to clean up their rules when it comes to that. If that happened against Greece, the Flat Earth society conspiracy guys or guy might just explode.

Seriously though, I would really be interested to see what the offense would look like if they posted Lebron. You have to imagine he will be doubled, Lebron, being the great passer that he is, will have a myriad of offensive options to choose from.
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Vincent
10 years ago
I think coach K is also working out his rotations and playing combo’s. He needs to find out who to have on the floor in crunch time in a close game. I figure he already knows to have Kobe, LeBron, and Durrant on the floor. The question who the other 2 will be.
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- Gabe
  10 years ago
  With that shot yesterday I’ll be leaning toward CP3.
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Paul
10 years ago
mike says:
July 23, 2012 at 3.45pm

Yeah, the Paul thing was weird. 4 free throws and possession? C’mon. FIBA really has to clean up their rules when it comes to that. If that happened against Greece, the Flat Earth society conspiracy guys or guy might just explode.

reply

STFU about Greek people and Greece. Every god damn time I come to this site you are making rude remarks about it. I come here to read about basketball, not racist rants.
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Gus
10 years ago
I have been watching fiba & nba basketball for over 20 yrs and i speak with my mind and not with my gut like some other guys here . US will lose and not win gold. they will lose the group to the argies and face either brazil or russia in the qts were its gona be tough.they are not solid in all their lines and are a jump shouting team.That s a recipe for disaster. because somedays ur hot and somedays ur cold. they got of to a 17-1 run and then they cooled off. no US would get a bronze and thats an acomplishment . the warm ups actually favor arg and brazil because americans go all out everytime and dont speculate or pace themselves like fiba teams. fiba teams are more calculating and use gamesmenship. I expected USA to blow the competition in the warmups and struggle at the olympics but I see them already having trouble at this early stage, thats frightining. spain will not play with either marc gasol or sergio rodriguez because they are nicked up. i would have said a US blowout a week ago now spain might win anyway
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Gus
10 years ago
Spain , argentina , usa, russia in that order .Argentina has no centers , are old and dint play defense in the 1st quarter and still almost beat the US. dude america is not winning gold. not even colangelo and his conections can prevent that.he will try. shufling refs, getting foreign players in the nba not to play for their countries. noah, bogut,baobois,
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- Phileus
  10 years ago
  I have a polite request to make of you: please stop with the conspiracy theories and speak with your “mind” as you claimed to do. It’s already early, but basically what you are saying is, “Team USA will not win, but if they do, then it only means they cheated.” It’s pathetic that the excuses start even before the Olympics, and there has been no sign of ref favoritism at all in the friendlies to validate that accusation. Be rational. Do you really believe the US team has a 0% chance of winning fairly? Let’s agree as gentlemen not to make such accusations lightly, and to justify our claims with links when we do. Deal?
  
  That being said, you are right. Team USA looks horrible against any competent defensive team that can slow down the tempo and force slow offensive possessions. USA shooting is too inconsistent to live by the 3-pointer. So far, the individual brilliance of LeBron and Durant has been enough to pull out meaningless “victories” – you can tell that the players and coaches of USA care about winning these games, which is silly, but sadly is an expectation amongst regular sports fans here.
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  - Gabe
    10 years ago
    Looked horrible. I think pulling out close victories against some of the top teams were good. And yes the US must win every game, even friendlies but don’t tell me the other teams would not want to beat the US to in those games. And just ignore Gus, it’s just wishful thinking on his part. I’m sure he said the same thing in 2008 & 2010. So in the warm-ups the “americans go all out everytime and don’t speculate or pace themselves like fiba teams. fiba teams are more calculating and use gamesmenship” That’s why in 2010 the US only beat Spain by one point in a warm-up yet when it counted they won gold and Spain was 6th place. Or how about in 2008 when the US only beat Australia by 11 points in a warm-up but 31 points in the quarter-finals?
    
    Gus is another one of those “flat-earthers” as Mike describes them. Yes Noah, Bogut and Baobois are not playing because of a conspiracy by Colangelo to help the US win but Rose, Howard, Bosh, Griffin, Wade, Billups, and Aldridge are not playing because they are injured.
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    - Phileus
      10 years ago
      Eh, it’s true that other teams hold back a lot, and it makes sense. For example, why risk a key player in the friendlies if he is coming back from injuries? Why reveal your zone configurations against particular lineups? It can be a big advantage to spring unknown plays on your opponents, but Team USA seems to unload its whole clip every game. They haven’t had a lot of practice time yet, so it makes sense perhaps.
      
      Also, the US won the friendlies but looked bad doing so. With three offensive juggernauts in the starting five, they seem to fallback on iso plays and outside jumpers too much. Like I said before, they have only won games based on superior individual talent. Will that be enough when the real test comes? Maybe, but at the very least, you have to admit that Team USA looks beatable.
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      - Gabe
        10 years ago
        I don’t know why you say other teams hold back but the US doesn’t. They are a FIBA team just like everyone else and holds back or not just like the other teams, especially when playing their challengers in Argentina and Spain. You don’t think Coach K has some tricks up his own sleeve? Again I point to 2008 when they US beat Australia by only 11 points in the friendly but by 31 when it counted.
        
        And of course Team USA looks beatable. USA has been “beatable” since 2000. Most every team in every sport is beatable, except perhaps the three Dream Teams, especially the original one. That doesn’t mean that the US is still not overwhelming favorites to win gold.
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mike
10 years ago
Hey Gus and Paul, make sure you have enough snacks when you watch the basketball friendlies and the London Games on TV. We don’t want Mr. billy spanoulis to be hungry now, do we?
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Phileus
10 years ago
Gabe, yes, Team USA treats these games as the real thing more than as practce because fans (like you) see it that way, even though a loss can be more valuable at this point.

As you said, USA is still the overhwlming favorite to win. Precisely because of that, think of what you would do as an underdog coach. Would you pla at 100%, knowing you will likely lose, and demoralize your team? Or would you play close enough to give your players confidence, then hold back enough so you can say, “We stuck close to them even without doing XYZ” so that they have something up their sleeves for next time?

For the record, I think teams like Argentina and Spain have no need for such confidence boosting at this point, but Brazil is a different story. I also would not be surprised to see Spain rest or only cautiously use Marc Gasol and Navarro, which wouldn’t be the case in the real games.

The point is, the stakes are a lot higher for Team USA in practice games (because of expectations than for other teams, which really can have moral victories.
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- Gabe
  10 years ago
  Yes I know Spain didn’t try 100% to win but USA looked good. Go Melo! (I’m a Knick fan BTW so anything Melo or Chandler does make it extra special). Some games are going to be close. Most are going to be blowouts. The important thing is the US is not going to lose any.
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Alex
10 years ago
Here’s a quick note on Carmelo Anthony. Ever since FIBA went to NBA-spacing–a longer three-point line, rectangular paint, etc–Anthony is no longer an “ideal” FIBA power forward. In the past he was the ultimate stretch-four, largely because of the shorter three-point line and the fact that opposing teams usually played a smaller power forward that could, conversely, stretch the defense. Thus, Anthony wasn’t outsized, and if he were, it wasn’t by much, and in those cases he was FAR quicker than the individual guarding him.

In essence, the old system permitted Anthony to stretch a defense while being able to use his quickness to get to the basket. On the defensive side of the ball, Anthony wasn’t at a disadvantage because he wasn’t THAT much smaller than his opposition.

Now that FIBA has gone to NBA-like spacing, these advantages have evaporated. The other national teams now tend to employ larger, more “traditional” fours to take advantage of the smaller three-second area, and because three-pointers have become more difficult. Sidenote: I honestly don’t know if percentages have increased; if they have, it’s not necessarily indicative of an ineffectual extended line; I’d have to look at which players are shooting–ie, if bigs are still shooting–and how many threes are attempted per game.

Anyway, just as in the NBA, Anthony can’t play PF long-term. His opponents are too big, and the three-point line extends just beyond his range. Now in FIBA, like in the NBA, he will be confined to playing the three.
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GP
10 years ago
Team USA hasn’t really changed in terms of talent (since they’ll always be top-notch), but they’re tooled much differently this time around. In 2008, the team could rely on a post trio of Dwight Howard, Chris Bosh and Carlos Boozer to provide inside scoring, defensive intimidation, and rebounding. This year, they’ve only got Tyson Chandler and Kevin Love, meaning that the scoring effort is going to have to come mainly from their guards. Secondly, that 2008 team trusted all 12 of its players, playing every single player during every single game. This team uses a 10 man rotation, likely leaving James Harden and Anthony Davis only garbage time minutes. Lastly, the team has exchanged Kevin Durant for Dwayne Wade. It’s an even exchange in terms of numbers, but it also gives the team a lot more length and shooting range, something that was a problem for the 2008 team.
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- Gabe
  10 years ago
  That’s not true. Carlos Boozer only played garbage time for the 2008. Even Michael Redd say limited action in the semi-finals, missed a couple shots and had a DNP in the gold medal game. The 2008 team really had a 10 man rotation as well.
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mike
10 years ago
Hmmm, if Alex’s theory of FIBA and PF is true, then who was that guy who pulverized Spain with 27 points, 23 points before halftime. Could it be Gabe’s SF with the Knicks. How can this be if Melo can’t play PF in FIBA ball?

Oh well, I can see the excuses now. Spain didn’t play their best in front of their home fans. Yup, when Spain loses big in the Gold Medal game to the US, it will be the fault of Colangelo and the refs conspiring. It’s those same,big ,bad FIBA officials who kept billy and Greece out of the Olympics. Hehe. Oh oh here it comes.
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Greg
10 years ago
Who the fuck is the dumb ass that created this bull shit from USA that all international power forwards are small?

What a bunch of joke comments in this forum.

I just read one or two articles here and I am done with this site. PATHETIC.
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