Controversy around the Spanish national team

August 12, 2008

I am not really sure what to do with this. This is why I let you to discuss this one on your own. As one of our readers points out, the Spanish national team took this picture:

Spanish national team

As The Guardian, one of England’s leading newspaper,s points out, this is nothing special since Spain is well know for their racist actions.

Wow.

Of course this picture does not make any sense – I have been thinking about the reason for this one for two days now. I still don’t know, but it never came to my mind this is out of racism at all.

You can pick people doing racist things in any country, but this does not reflect the majority of a whole nation such as Spain.

Aug 12, 2008ballineurope

This post was published on August 12, 2008

Comments: 44

migala
17 years ago
oh, not again, specially not from British media trying to clean their blessed record of superhuman rights… How can this be racism and not when German tourists buy Mexican hats in Barcelona and pretend to be Latin?
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Álvaro
17 years ago
Lack of humour.

Was an insult the Lithuanian photos dressed up like bullfighters?

Just joking.
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Phileus
17 years ago
Regardless of the intent, it’s rather tasteless and the fact that it didn’t occur to anyone that this might be a poor idea going into Beijing suggests a cultural backwardness or else a lack of sensitivity among this very visible minority of Spaniards.

I am Asian and while I do not pretend to be offended, I have to say that it is just absolutely foolish.
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Álvaro
17 years ago
Come on Phileus, it was just a joke. What if chinese team go to Spain and make a photo like bullfighters? What about keeping big his eyes just opposite as it has been with this photo? Should we be offended? I don’t think son.

Try to think about it as a joke, because I’m extremely sure that was just the will of the photo.

I think we’ve got bigger problems to be concerned about…
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Scott
17 years ago
Phileus is right. They should have known better. This is absolutly foolish.

In the U.S. the the “slant-eye” gesture is a fairly strong insult to Asians, much more so than horns to the head. Maybe the horns are more insulting in Europe, I don’t know….

If the U.S. team did this, there would be hell to pay. Seriously, it would cause a huge media stir. Mostly about how dumb one could be to pose for such a picture, even if you are trying to be funny.

I am not “politically correct” by any means. I just understand how the media loves this kind of contoversy and that there is a whole industry in the U.S. built by the liberal media on “being offended”.

Is this much different than the banna peals and monkey chants the Spanish have foolishly used? Possibly worse, as this is the players, not the fans.
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migala
17 years ago
“monkey chants the Spanish have foolishly used”

what do you mean by “the Spanish”? A group of stupid so-called fans? I HATE when you say “the Spanish”. It´s such a GENERAL term… Such a misguided concept…

Can you compare doing monkey chants to members of the visiting team with pulling at the sides of your eyes in a slit-eyed gesture which actually pretends to be a sympathetic gesture towards the host team? Whoever thinks it´s the same offense it´s sick and should see a doctor. Or a priest. Or both.

Maybe the team which represents me has been too naive, maybe we lack enough Asian immigrants to know better, but I can assure you it´s not a racist statement.

And that Spain is not more racist than, let´s think, France, Italy, Russia, UK or whichever country you could care to mention.
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migala
17 years ago
In Spain Ithe “slant-eye” gesture is not an insult. And I know by experience. As I said before, my girlfriend is from Taiwan and I have a lot of friends from Japan, China and Singapur. This gesture is not considedered offensive AT ALL here…
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Julián
17 years ago
This gesture has no negative meaning at all in Spain. You can accuse them on stupidity -it´s a very silly joke-, but not on racism.

I suppose that, if the question grows, the Spanish Federation will make quickly a statement to apologize.

You can believe or not, but this is the way it really is. By the way, I don´t understand why somebody could think that a team could make deliberatelly something to offend the people of the country where they will play their next championship. Do they like to have the crowd against them…?
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Teo
17 years ago
no big deal I think, they also could have taken a picture eating noodles. It’s just a warmup to the tournament, they are creating an atmsphere. Besides, in Spain there is a little belief that the easter shores really have been beneficial to spnish basketball and I read that the players werepsyched about having a big tournament in Asia again. so I just think this is a harmless stab at riding the wave of their enthusiasm, not any attempt at being a racist. I dislike the spanish eam for various reasons relating to their behaviour on court, but it’s just unfair to overscrutinize everything tey do and light it negatively.
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migala
17 years ago
thanks, Teo. I really appreciate your comments. Being a fan of the Spanish team (and I dislike the flopping as I hate, for instance, the Greek’s melodrama) I have to say that I had never suffered so much like today in the China-Spain game… Oh Lord, I almost break my beer bottle against the wall…

you are totally right, I feel in Spain people think any gesture towards oriental people brings good omen… and it´s not offensive, you know… and Asians living here feel the same!!!!!

Now let´s talk about hoops, right?
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migala
17 years ago
Actually during the last Eurobasket tournament (which we lost, and I really admire Kirilenko, you know) many “non spanish” fans dressed with Mexican hats, bullfighters dresses, moustaches from hell, etc… And I found that quite funny…., Please tell me, should I be very offended? Or just a little bit offended?
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Scott
17 years ago
My ending sentence refered to the fans, not all Spanish.

Maybe to you, the Spanish people or all Europeans the “slant eye” does not have strong negative racist meanings.
In certian parts of the world were east asian immigration is more predominant over the ages, this is considered to be a very racist gestures from whites, blacks and latinos towards east asian.

I have lived in Vancouver, Sydney, San Francisco, Hong Kong and currently Los Angeles all with very heavy asian populations. I promise you this is really bad.

I believe you if you say this is just cultural differences and they just didn’t know. I doubt the intent was there.

I am not here accusing them of being racist – I wasn’t there, I don’t know their intent, it probably was meant to be funny.

However, I am accusing them of stupidity and foolishness. The players, the coaches, the teams officials, the picture taker etc.

These are experienced international professionals…they really should know better.
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migala
17 years ago
Scott, I see your point. I don´t agree with you 100%, but I understand what you are trying to say. I wish it didn´t happened, but when analyzing it I can tell you it had no racial meaning whatsoever. It´s not a racist statement in Spain and no Asian in Spain considers it racist.

But… I just wich they had chosen another way to pose, you now.

I guess Pau Gasol and Yao Ming, being good friends, will have a lot to say about this misguided intention to be funny.

Please accept my apologies in behalf of the Spanish team.
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migala
17 years ago
Just about hoops: am I the only one to think Ricky Rubio is the real deal? Man, he is a beast. Without him… I mean… wow…
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Stephan
17 years ago
This media furor is another example how things in a global society go from bad to worse. What is meant to be funny in one country, can be a social desaster in another country. So I bring it back to the media, why do not just put this picture in the dustbin and leave it there? And maybe send a short email to the ACB telling them to think twice about the publishing of this picture. Now, back to hoops: Where can I watch the ESP:CHI game again on the internet? Thx, Stephan
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Phileus
17 years ago
There is a reason a separate post was made for this topic: so it can be discussed, even if it is unpleasant. I don’t think anyone talking here so far has had negative intent, just the intent to discuss reasonably.

I, like Scott, am not accusing them of racism, as much as I am accusing them of insensitivity. I am actually very reassured to know that in Spain, this gesture is not offensive, but the fact remains that it is very offensive elsewhere – and the team, as an international icon, ought to have known better.

“What is meant to be funny in one country, can be a social desaster in another country. So I bring it back to the media, why do not just put this picture in the dustbin and leave it there?”

The Olympics is an international competition meant to bring out champions in sports, but also to bring about international unity and cooperation. As such, athletes are supposed to be ambassadors for their countries – and they are much more high-profile than the real ambassadors in the embassies.

The Spanish team is extremely visible because it just may be the best basketball team in the world. Everyone talks fondly of the “internationalisation” of basketball but that does not just mean the fun and games of Europeans going to the US and vice versa, or of European clubs beating American ones. It should also mean increase of understanding, an increase of awareness, and also increase of caution.

I do not think the Spanish team are racists, but they need to be aware of their iconic status around the world and act accordingly.
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Marc
17 years ago
I read The Guardian’s article, and it is crap.

One man, Luis Aragones, did have an unfortunate derogatory comment that could be construed as racist. That’s it. That should be the end of it. I don’t know why the British press keeps pushing the buttons. That’s irresponsible and inflammatory.

Besides, Brits should look in a mirror before they start saying anything about racism. I bet that among all the fine inventions the British have managed to accomplish, the commercial overseas trading of humans is not at top of the list.

Realizing there are differences between races and even making fun of those differences is not racism. Maybe tasteless, but not racism. This is just a matter of The Guardian saying it’s racism and some people buying into it.

Now I remember why I never read The Guardian…
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edub
17 years ago
shameless, distasteful and insulting to me and fellow asians. the photogs should have known better
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A.
17 years ago
Folks, who gives a shit if it has negative/positive conntations in Spain? THEY DID NOT DO THAT IN SPAIN. They insulted an entire race of people on these people’s SOIL.

Americans would be in an uproar, and you can be for damn sure that Spain would be too.

I’m sick of this general attitude of disrespect towards China. I hope China beats the shit out of every Western Team in the Olympics, and then continues that winning streak in economy, foreign policy and globally. I hope they give the West the biggest middle finger that they can.
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migala
17 years ago
And still, no-one has been able to explain to me why the “slant-eye” gesture is an insult…

In a few decades any sign of good humor, irony, sarcasm or just comedy will be wiped from Earth thanks to political correctness.
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Maku
17 years ago
Please, can anybody explain also, why the complaints come from british media instead that from the asian ones?

As, Alvaro has published in his blog, what do you say about this?:
http://www.basketnews.lt/index.php/photos.view;id.793
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Teo
17 years ago
The picture just means that the spanish team acts as “chinese”, it’s a nod, it’s like saying: hey, we can do it in china as well, and the east suits us well.
they put the dragon on the picture, it’s a picture that is supposed to set the typical team picture somne ways apart and present them as chinese without photoshopping. If they had been edited with a pc to look chinese nobody would be complaining…
get over it, stop looking for things to be upset about.
As if there weren’t any real news right now….
And maku, I consider your picture to be completely normal, as it has never been demeaning in any context to be depicted as a bullfighter, it’s also justa cultural nod, maybe a bit more fortunate than the spanish one, but it’s still just a tad bit of fooling around. The next time I see a chinese person on the octoberfest wearing bavarian stuff, I’ll tell him how terribly insulted the germans should be.
How about that? The absurdity of this issue is getting on my nerves, I’ll just go and have coffee with my chinese neighbour now, he thinks this is besides the point as well.
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InsideHoops.com
17 years ago
Making fun of a racial stereotype/characteristic of another race does, of course, seem a tad racist. Of course, there are different “levels” of racism, but I won’t get into that.
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Phileus
17 years ago
migala, it is an insult because it has been used by generations of Europeans to demean Chinese people’s genetic features. It is not just mimicry; it has been, for a long time, meant to disparage that which is different.

I don’t see why Spanish people cannot admit that their team must be more aware of their global status. You surely are rooting for the team to win the gold, no? I am sure BallInEurope’s editors are as well. However, can you be proud of a team that wins gold, but the continues to act like culturally uneducated bumpkins? I think not.

I would be quite ashamed if Team China (haha) or Team USA won gold and then put on a shameful act. The Olympic Games should be about class and dignity, not about such culturally insensitive acts of foolishness.
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Marcos Castrillon
17 years ago
That’s because it’s not shameful or an insult. It is insensitive towards a certain demographic, but you cannot view it out of context. And The Guardian is reading it out of context, same as you are all reading it out of context, since you lack an understanding of the spanish mindset.

Until I hear the outrage of Spain’s huge East Asian minority over this picture, I’ll just file this as Luis Aragonés affair Part Deux,
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migala
17 years ago
There is nothing wrong (obviously) with Chinese people’s genetic features, slant-eyes included. So posing like that can´t be offensive or derogatory. The team was clearly JUST trying to pretend to be “more Asian” as a symphatetic gesture towards the host of the Olympic Games, that is all.

I think many of the “offended” people, specially in the UK, really believe that Asian in general and Chinese in particular have a complex of inferiority which they actually don´t feel.

Again: if as we all agree, there is nothing wrong with having slant-eyes, how could the slant-eye gesture be offensive at all?

It´s a total different thing with the monkey chants, which I really hate, because you are basically saying that a human being is just an animal. THAT is derogatory and a true insult.

Another reason to hate The Guardian.
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Marcos Castrillón
17 years ago
The Guardian is a fine paper, I even dare to say the best in England. Their problem is that their lefty holier-than-thou attitude can go a bit too far sometimes.

And I say that as a guy who’s probably more leftist than anyone working for the paper.
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AN
17 years ago
As an asian growing up in the US, I observed many asians inluding myself being taunted with these type of gestures so my first initial reaction is anger. These gestures were made to single out features of asians in a negative way. I do have a sense of humor but I think this was inappropriate based upon who they are and the public exposure of this. I have friends who are not asians that tease me about my eyes, but it is in totally different context so I don’t beleive they were being racist, just poor taste. I can’t speak for all asians. I just feel that no ones likes to be pointed out in a negative way for certain characteristics they have especially related to their race so I think it was probably in the back of their minds when they decided to do this. So just apologize and move on…
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Nothmar
17 years ago
Were do we draw the line to what is considered offense?

These guys are representing their countries. I dont care how many chinese, or asian friends these players or other non asian people say they have, making insensitive racial gestures should never be tolerated in any shape of form esepcially from ambassadors to the olympics.
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Nothmar
17 years ago
AN hits it on the nose. Im glad more asians are speaking out.

I perplexes me that people on this board, including the Spanish basketball team, thinks that having asian friends gives people a free pass to make racially insensitive comments or gestures without truly understanding the insults and taunting asians have endured in some circles of society in the US or elsewhere due to our features.

Is this topic blown out of proportion? Maybe. I believe though that the backlash is growing because these players, and it seems a large number of people, sitll think there was nothing done wrong here, even if it a simple insensitive gesture.

It seems that there are still apparently plenty of people who are oblivious and have never experienced these racial issues.

To me, those gestures are as offensive as any other racial slurs and gestures Ive seen in my lifetime directed to me and other asians.
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Julián
17 years ago
I really don´t understand all this stuff. They made a mistake, not knowing it was a mistake. They badly need better PR people. They apologize.

I think is enough.

To insist on the question can only mind one of this three thins:

-You want to damage the guys, and this is just a wonderful excuse.

-You distrust of our explanations, and think we all spanish are lying becouse we are really, really bads. Which is racist somehow.

-You think that we all in the world have to know your social codes becouse are the only valid ones, including gestures. Which is ethnocentric, at the best.
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javier
17 years ago
White people from UK and USA had been demeaning asian people whit the “slant-eye” gesture since ages. So, as they use it as an insult in the past, because they were deeply racist then, the “slant-eye” gesture must be banned for ever. And anyone who dares to make it is a racist, just as they were when they use it.
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Julián
17 years ago
Spanish journalist has shown the picture to chinese colleagues in Beijing… and they didn’t know the gesture have any meaning.

It seems it is just a english-northamerican “universal” racist gesture.

Sorry, the link is in spanish

http://www.20minutos.es/noticia/405613/0/jjoo/chinos/racismo
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lauren
17 years ago
It’s an offensive gesture because Chinese and others of Asian decent have been persecuted quite a bit and “slant eye” became a slang name that was used in a derogatory manner by haters. Alluding to that evokes the images of past racism that existed and in some places still exists. It’s not just the gesture itself. It’s the history that’s attached to it. And I agree with the poster who said that as ambassadors of their country to the world in these very public games, they should have known better.
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Nothmar
17 years ago
We in the asian community are not seeking to damage people but since the issue was presented by a group of people that are ambassadors and sports heroes, which are looked highly upon in Spain and Europe in a global stage.

This is a discussion. People are making comments to tell people to stop discussing the issue especialy since the topic is still a hot topic is absurd. We have a right to discuss the issue especially since there are still a lot of misconceptions presented including in this job board.

We dont expect other races to know asian social codes in the world but basic common sense and sensitivity to other cultures is in order.

Think about the repercussions.

These guys are basketball heroes in Spain and elsewhere in Europe. European kids look up to them. Potentially, younger kids who idolize these players, start imitating them and start making slant eye gestures or even calling ethnic slurs to asian kids in school and think it is acceptable and “funny”. It is a matter of time when kids of asian descent start loosing their confidence because of their peers making fun of them and which may potentially build anger for these kids growing up. Some people, even chinese in china, may not understand this racial insensitivies because they have not experienced growing up in different cultures. It is not acceptable nonetheless.

Nobody is perfect we understand. But these guys need to make a full apology to the asian community because of their status in the sports community. The apology should not be half hearted and they should not continue to make comments that even though it was made in fun that it is acceptable.
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Tad Nathaniel
17 years ago
Time-slip, if you will, back to the 1950-1960’s. The boss (of course, male) walks into the office, and pats his female secretary’s rear end. He says, ” I like them round and plump.” Now, someone from the 21st century tells this boss that he has done and said an awful thing, and he is being downright sexist.

His response: “I was giving my secretary a friendly greeting. It was just harmless fun. It is absurd for anyone to make a big thing of it. How could women possibly take offense at this? I’ll have you know that I am friends with many women!”

Dear stupid Spaniards, don’ t you think it’s about time you learned that it is offensive when the people you direct your words and actions think it’s offensive. The one dishing it out has no say in whether people should be offended or not.

Join us. We have already moved into the 21st century. Hope you can catch up.
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migala72
17 years ago
You are just plain stupid Tad Nathaniel (and you have started saying “Dear stupid Spaniards). The comparison is just dumb. I guess you didn´t attend any of your debate classes, right?
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migala72
17 years ago
Let me remind you: no Chinese person in Spain has felt offended (and apart from what i have been reading here, believe me, I live in a place with many Chinese-Spanish or just plain Chinese population), neither in China. And the China Embassy in Spain has released an statement saying that they don´t feel offended at all.

Just for you to know. Stop talking smack.
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Baggio Claderoza
17 years ago
Dear Slant-brained Spanish Team,

How many Spaniards does it take to change a liight bulb?
A. 5
B.15
C. What”s a light bulb?
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migala
17 years ago
oh god, is this for real?
it takes calderon, ok?
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David
17 years ago
It seems to me, from following this discussion, that, generally speaking, it is the North Americans (Asian or otherwise) who feel that this gesture is terribly racist, while most Spanish, don’t seem to understand why this would be racist at all, as in Spain, apparently it is not.

I do not accept that such a gesture may be interpreted as universally offensive.

Hearing the American argument that the Spanish basketball players should have known better and should have been more aware of international culture (to be read: American culture) makes me laugh. It is perhaps true that these players have displayed an ignorance of American culture. But considering that most Americans have little to no clue what goes on outside of its borders, the accusation of ignorance, which seems the only sensible accusation in this case, is ludicrous, when it comes from Americans.

Oh, and congratulations to the Spanish team for making the finals, although, to be honest I was hoping for a USA-LIT final.
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Tad Nathaniel
17 years ago
I just knew some hot-air buffoon would bite, if I inserted the word “stupid” in my post. You are so predictable, you angry little man.

I’d love to stay and chat, but as we say in Spain，MIGATA GO ! Good luck twisting yourself into a pretzel, apologizing for the Spanish Team.

I’ll give you the last word. Knock yourself out.
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Slant-eyed Asian
17 years ago
You’ve heard of the fearsome team from Spain:
They persevered for Gold in vain.
Poised with confidence, unrestrained,
Their eyes betrayed the heart they feign.

“Friendly and harmless, simple and plain.
You read into it; it’s all in your brain.”
Such words of comfort they hope have regained
The misplaced trust ever more to attain.

Good humor they claimed they wish to retain,
But it all came under fire and rain.
In centuries passed, their glory has waned,
In clueless oblivion they choose to remain.

Shell-struck people of Asian terrain
Witness again the white man’s refrain.
Branded “sub-human”, they once were detained
In the confines of their master’s domain.

So goes the story of the team from Spain:
They persevere for support in vain.
Poised with resolve, but now restrained,
Their shame foreshadows all that they feign.

I am your slant-eye, but this I maintain:
My blood is as red as that in your vein.
My insides are torn, my emotions drained,
To hear you proclaim there’s no one in pain.

…by Slant-eyed Asian…
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Ching Chong Chink
17 years ago
All you apologists for Spain, go here:

Spanish Basketball team: Asian response to Slant-Eye picture
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=z64i-pZZgYI&feature=related

These babes (I guess you would call them China dolls, but I call them “way above your pay-grade”) will eat you for breakfast, hands tied and blindfolded.
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